Religious / philosophical exotism and cultural identity

by Narkissos 35 Replies latest jw friends

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Didier:Your post was wonderful!

    I've been interested in oriental culture since childhood. To the Western mind it is alien, however no less appropriate. We think as we think, often depending on where we are raised.

    However I'm a firm believer in the axiom that travel broadens the mind (if we let it). By interacting with other cultures we see another way of "living", another way of viewing the world, albeit our attempts to do so are vicarious.

    Before I visited the States (for example), I generally saw Americans as boorish. Now I understand that they have a different perspective which is no less valid for their nonhomogenous culture, but is wildly different from a huge proportion of the rest of the planet.

    As for our religio-cultural identity, I believe it is nearly inseparable from the environment in which we are nurtured. Perhaps the way in which Christianity attempts to straddle the divide explains in some small measure why its adherents have proved so fractious?

    Terry:Have you studied the structure of the Chinese language? It is logical par excellence, leading the people of China to have a mind that is structured in that logic to an almost excessive degree.

    You cite an example of either/or/both, as a demonstration of logic failure. That would be a common failing with a Boolean structured mind. The state of "both" is common to the point of universality. They probably find the Western version of "logic" kind of primitive. The real point being that their mindset works for them.

    Is the cup half full or half empty?

  • Pole
    Pole
    You cite an example of either/or/both, as a demonstration of logic failure. That would be a common failing with a Boolean structured mind. The state of "both" is common to the point of universality. They probably find the Western version of "logic" kind of primitive. The real point being that their mindset works for them.



    I don't like the way two-valued logic is being pictured here as the West's chief and only methodological asset. There are many different varieties of logic developed by our Western culture. Fuzzy set logic, muli-modal logic, Lukaszewski's notation. Aristotel stopped being the only game in town long time ago. So did Euclides. There are perfectly mathematical variations of geometry that you have never dreamt of.

    What still makes some aspects of the Western culture (such as the scientific method) distinctive is that no matter which type of logic you present as yours, you have to define your methodology of knowing in more rigid terms than those which get applied in Eastern philosophy. (At least that's my understanding. I'm ready to be corrected).

    Pole

  • Pole
    Pole
    Have you studied the structure of the Chinese language? It is logical par excellence, leading the people of China to have a mind that is structured in that logic to an almost excessive degree.


    That is if you believe in the extreme version of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.

    Pole

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Pole:Have you ever played "Go"?

    Simply comparing boardgames is enlightening. They work on strict rules of logic, but there's little comparison to Chequers or even chess.

  • Pole
    Pole

    LT,

    I basically agree with your general claim that the chinese can get as "logical" as Westerners. I just wouldn't explain it in linguistics terms. Even languages used by "primitive" and mysticism-driven cultures have languages which are impressively structured and predictive according to their own logic. Almost like "god-given" (now, what am I saying?) if you consider the fact that there is little or no recorded conscious relfection in those cultures.
    Pole

  • Terry
    Terry
    Once againt Terry, you have set up a fallacious dichotomy forcing an either/or choice not unlike the endless discussions over the magic wand approach to the orgins of life and the universe. The scientific method would collapse without the creative process that has minimal logic until a creative hypothesis is formulated. Humanity and its advancing civilication would collapse if either extreme were followed.

    A fallacious dichotomy?

    Excuse me, I must have missed something then. What did I leave out?

    A magic wand approach to the origins of life? Where did I mention that?

    The scientific method has "minimal logic" until a hypothesis is formed? Exactly what is "minimal" logic and what is the alternative?

    Exactly how does one go about proving your assertions? How do you see, exactly, humanity and civilization collapsing if it were entirely logical?

    In order to understand where you are coming from in these conjectures and animadversions I need to see some support for your argument. Otherwise, I'm just sitting here wondering if you read my post or somebody else's.

    T.

  • Terry
  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    *Big, heavy, sigh*

    Great original post Narkissos. I really do hope you'll pen a book on your mind's travels, friend.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    If I get the intent of your original thought Narkissos, it is fascinating how language, culture, and history can form our mind to a completely different way of thinking. I also like to explore other cultures, immerse myself in the daily life of the country I am visiting. I think that is the great magic of travel, and I absolutely hate the McHotels that have sprung up around the globe offering sun, surf, and Americana. What of the indigenous culture?

    I have a book of Confuscius philosophy at home. One day I might finish it. If I remember right, the individual needs is subsumed to the needs of the community. Something we might learn from in the West.

    I am also fascinated with how we might be delaying scientific discovery by either/or thinking. I am reminded of the work done to discover the link between sugar and insulin. Many dogs died from insulin overdose until the great discovery of BALANCE between the two was sorted out. It is not that sugar or insulin are bad. We need both, in balance, to survive.

    I suspect a similar discovery is due with the Myelin Project and the production of long chain fatty acids. http://www.myelin.org/aboutoil.htm.

  • trevor
    trevor

    It could be worse Terry -

    Someone could have offered to pray for you

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