Why 1914 is utterly true (and so is 607 B.C.E.)

by Terry 66 Replies latest jw friends

  • Rod P
    Rod P

    Terry,

    If only we could harness the power of creativity here on JWD to actually DO SOMETHING to shake the Bethel Boys with more shocks on the Richter scale instead of the gentle erosions ongoing.

    It occurs to me that the JWD Forum contains a wealth of information on JW's- their founders and successors, their history, their doctrines, teachings, prophecies, scriptural interpretations and continual changes thereto, their lies and cover-ups, the GB/FDS tactics and treatments of the rank and file vis-a-vis disfellowshipment and the blood issue, and so on.

    The Society has a number of CD's that capture and preserve the content of their past publications. Why can't something similar be done for and on behalf of JWD Forum? Except, however, there is some material here that would not be relevant such as off-JW topics, fluffy exchanges, fun and games, argumentive or contentious threads, and such. This would be the kind of information that would be best not included. (In other words, part of an editing-out process.)

    The objective here would be to create a kind of "Best of JWD" collection, or "Classic JWD Threads" or such. Also, it would be about organizing the material into topics or categories to facilitate research. The CD-ROM could be interactive with a comprehensive index that could take you to the thread or topic you wish to access.

    With this collection of the best and most useful/relevant threads/posts respecting the Religion of Jehovah's Witnesses, a second phase could be entered into. This would be one where, on any given topic, the threads/posts could be reviewed and analysed, and then edited and rewritten such that all of the salient points could be distilled into succinct points that are important contributions of thought to a particular subject or topic. After all, there is a lot of cumulative duplication in the material over time, which repetition we would want to eliminate in the rewriting and reorganization- much like producing a comprehensive manuscript for publication as a book (CD-ROM).

    This would be a rather huge undertaking, and one in which a number of volunteers could participate, with each one specializing and focusing on a specific topic or area of concern. There would also need to be a kind of Project Manager/Co-ordinator or Producer/Director thru whom everything flowed to the top from each of the participants. This has to flow on some kind of organized basis, with target dates for accomplishing various tasks, and all of the components of the project coming together in some kind of organized fashion, just like happens when a movie gets produced. It all has to come together.

    Certain matters would have to be dealt with at the outset. For example, protecting everyone's identity, anonymity and confidentiality as posters. Further, as a prerequisite, if we wish to publish any of their commentary, this project would involve obtaining permission from each of the individual contributors on their threads/posts to do so. In this regard, we would need to approach Simon, the Administrator for his prior approval of such an undertaking. Everything we do would have to be subject to his prior approval, and consistent with his stated policies and obligations he is under with respect to the JWD Forum. In fact, he would essentially have to be the head of this Project, since this is already his Forum, and we cannot do anything to cross the line of proprietary rights and copyrights. It is just that there appears to me that there is such a wealth of useful and helpful information that has accumulated on this forum, and all we would be trying to do here is enhance its usefulness and value thru preservation, organization and publication.

    In the end, what would we have? I believe that this would prove invaluable to most everyone on JWD forum, as well as new JW's who are leaving, or thinking about leaving the JW Organization. And further, I think this would prove to be a powerful tool for approaching the folks at Bethel and creating our own Tsunami for their benefit. The shock waves may even come to be felt around the world, since JWD is already connected on a global scale in real time and without the limitation of geography. Can you also imagine this as a handy little disc for distribution at JW Conventions. After all, CD's are quite small, very light, and quite economical to produce, unlike most books.

    Finally, I am thinking that this has the potenital of generating revenue, the proceeds of which could be used to support this JWD Forum. The JWD Forum itself could simply advertize the availability of this CD-Rom on this Forum. After all, it is all about the material on this JWD Forum to begin with. We would not be doing this project for the financial rewards personally, but rather to support the cause of informing the public, helping those leaving JW Land, and those who have just left, and hopefully becoming an instrument that could cause a number of JW's who are already steeped and entrenched in that Organization to have a good, hard, second look at what they are doing with their lives; even getting to the "underbelly of the beast".

    What do you think?

    Rod P.

  • Terry
    Terry
    What do you think?

    Rod P.

    On a sidebar: The redactors who gave us what we now call Holy Scripture had the same idea!

    They undoubtedly did exactly what you suggest here: Eliminate what is fluff, nonsense, personal irrelevencies, etc. All this, mind you, with a concept of what it SHOULD in the end BECOME.

    The idea is, in short, to make a point considered worth making to REFUTE any idea which is the opposite of it.

    I think all holy writing has the same origin. Competing ideas demand apologia and some sort of document on both sides to refute the "errant" view.

    Okay, sidebar over.

    The largest obstacle to any such undertaking is LAZINESS on the part of the person who would be the target audience. For any such compilation to have impact; somebody has to take the trouble to read and digest it.

    Do you know what MOST PEOPLE DO? They reinforce what they believe by only reading what they agree with.

    Therefore, in my opinion, a forum of discussion and debate is the most effective venue for defeating invested belief and eroding false belief.

    Consequently, a document which CONTAINED debate and discussion is to be preferred over mere verbal flatulence (such as my posts).

    I think we need a PANKRATION.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration

  • prophecor
    prophecor

    Damn T, I wasn't gonna' look, but after seeing so many responses come up, page after page, I had to step into your arena to see what the heck all the fuss was about. I was tickled and not too lightly, I might add. That was very insightful, even if it was a bit acerbic. Good Job Sir, Good Job.

  • Rod P
    Rod P

    Terry,

    Can you be more specific as to in what form you would see this taking place?

    Are you thinking of a real live public debate? Apostates on one side with the boys from Bethel on the other, for instance? Would you see it in a television venue?

    Back in the 1960's (my JW days) a certain page was being circulated. It contained a list of questions posed by the JW's as a prelude to the debate, which challenged the representatives of Christendom to a debate based upon those questions. There were about 30 questions, many of which were about the Soul, the Trinity and Hellfire Doctrines, etc.

    At the end of the list of questions was the following:

    "No answer. No debate."

    If you read these questions (with a JW mind), you would have this feeling of superiority, because the questions were worded such that the Other Side would have no logical way out of the dilemma he would find himself in once he entered the debate. It's like if you answered question 3 a certain way, it would ensnare you into being forced to answer question 5 a certain way in order to be logically consistent with your answer to question 3. But if you answered question 5 that way to satisfy question 3, it would, in turn, trip you up when you went to answer question 9. And so on. (It reminded me of the Pharisees, who loved to pose trick questions such that you could not give a right answer no matter which way you answered.

    Anyway, I am still trying to grasp what exactly it is that you would propose.

    Rod P.

  • Rod P
    Rod P

    Terry,

    I just noticed your other new thread on Pankration. I get it now. Good idea, but I need to think about that one for a bit.

    Time to move the discussion over to that thread.

    Rod P.

  • Terry
    Terry
    If you read these questions (with a JW mind), you would have this feeling of superiority, because the questions were worded such that the Other Side would have no logical way out of the dilemma he would find himself in once he entered the debate. It's like if you answered question 3 a certain way, it would ensnare you into being forced to answer question 5 a certain way in order to be logically consistent with your answer to question 3. But if you answered question 5 that way to satisfy question 3, it would, in turn, trip you up when you went to answer question 9. And so on. (It reminded me of the Pharisees, who loved to pose trick questions such that you could not give a right answer no matter which way you answered.

    Anyway, I am still trying to grasp what exactly it is that you would propose

    It took me years and years and years to punch my way out of the paper bag you have adroitly identified above. Your point is well-taken.

    Nobody who ever debates Jehovah's Witnesses ever starts at the right level in the discussion. The foundation of Jehovah's Witness ideology is the inerrency of scripture FIRST and then INTERPRETATION.

    You must, simply MUST, begin with the inerrency of scripture. All of their writings which prop up the bible as the word of God can be demolished quite thoroughly. Once their anchor has been cut loose the INTERPRETATION can be addressed in terms of consistency with reality.

    That is the one/two punch that takes them to the canvas.

    My own discussions with my friend, Johnny, showed him to be very antsy about any discussion of the actual history of the bible. Facts, history, hermenutics, linguistic analysis are all balderdash with JW's. They have little or no accurate data provided by the Society in Brooklyn. Why? Because they FEAR accurate data which can only lead an honest person to doubt completely the inerrency of scripture.

    An honest inquiry leads to doubt and you cannot base INTERPRETATION (which often turns on a word or phrase or even where the comma goes) on doubt and guesswork.

    End of story.

    It can work. It does work.

    The hardest thing to find in a debate is an HONEST DEBATE OPPONENT AMONG THE JW's.

    T.

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard

    Jehovah's Witnesses 1914 Gospel of Gobbledygook
    Pressbox.co.uk (press release), UK - 18 minutes ago
    ... That ain't good enough. No way. We are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! ... Why? Because they contradict god's true religion: Jehovah's Witnesses. How do we prove that? Easy. ...

    by Terry Walstrom on the google news wire

  • Clam
    Clam

    I've been going through my archived "favourites". Just thought I'd ressurect this Ancient Worthy. This is a real keeper.

    Clam

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    If you re-wrote it for publication and then ran a page spread in a newspaper that would be stunning - if it caused controversy then that would also be great since then it would get it's own legs and get all the free publicity it needs. Think how all the current studies would feel and how embarressed the thinkers would be. Come to think of it you could youtube it and see how far it goes.

  • Chard
    Chard

    Dear Terry,Your whole testmony was one of the best ever. I enjoyed the humor on the 1914 thing,but mainly I thanked God that I got out of such a deluded Society. I have never experienced fear or regret since I found Christ without WT mags. (John 5:39-40) He set me free from bondage,what a joy. Praise His Name!

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