Apostasy - A Racist Movement?

by slimboyfat 81 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  slimboyfat

  
  
  1. Witnesses are disproportionately Black. How do I know?
  

  
  
  Well, Firpo Carr quotes Werner Cohn on page 41 of his book "Jehovah's Witnesses: The African American Enigma - A Contemporary Study, Vol. 1", as stating that in the US "membership of the organization was approximately 50% negro." Yet Cohn has been undermined in a number of respects in his scholarship on the Witnesses (See James Backford "Trumpet of Prophecy"), and his figures appear to be merely estimates based on his own observation. However more credible evidence for the disproportionate number of Black members can be found in the most recent edition of James Penton's book "Apocalypse Delayed", page 388, n. 90 where he states that a recent Convention discourse revealed that Blacks account for 18% of the membership in the US, compared with 12% of Blacks in the general population. That represents a significant over-representation of Blacks in the Witness community.
  

  
  
  2. Apostates are disproportionately white. Evidence?
  

  
  
  Showing that apostates are predominantly white is more tricky. Raw figures on the relative race percentiles of defectors would be impossible to gather due to the nebulous nature of the 'apostate movement', to the extent that such can even be styled. Nevertheless, it is an easier task to perform a search for Black's represented among apostate leaders who have published anti-Witness tracts: Raymond Franz, James Penton, Jerry Bergman, Randal Watters, Edmond Gruss... they are all white. I struggle to think of any apostate leaders who are black. Since nearly 20% of Witnesses are Black, we would expect at least some Blacks represented among prominent ex-Witnesses. Can anyone thing of any?
  

  
  
  Interestingly, the Witness apologetics scene is contrastingly small compared with that of published apostates, yet among their depleted ranks there are at least two influential Black proponents: Edgar Foster and Firpo Carr himself. In the absense of firm data for apostates, I submit that their virtual absense from the high-profile apostate scene is at least an indication that Blacks are under-represented in the apostate ranks compared with among Jehovah's Witnesses.
  

  
  
  Thanks for hearing me out...
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  mrsjones5

  Those quotes read like an opinion gleemed from stats not stated. You got any hard data to back this stuff up?

  Josie
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  RichieRich

  Since nearly 20% of Witnesses are Black

  You're contradicting yourself...

  Hey, did you give a talk at my hall last Wed night? They sure sounded like you...
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  LittleToe

  LOL

  So the Stats are American? That would be about 1/6th of the WTS membership - hardly representative...

  Showing that apostates are predominantly white is more tricky.

  Bl**dy impossible, if you ask me - LOL.
  Making the whole premise a nonsense!
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  minimus

  My thread's betterer.
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  Pole

  slimboy,
  
  The figures you are giving are not even tentative statistics by any means. Get a basic book on stats and see that both the methods of collecting data and the representativness of the samples you suggest render your conclusions totally useless.
  
  Having said that and taking into consideration the fact that you have admitted that there is no general "movement" of apostates and that you probably can't tell if and how many ex-witnesses are racist, do you still think there is anything to discuss?
  Pole
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  dorayakii

  The truth is I have never seen a black apostate and only saw one hispanic apostate which was rene vazquez. The apostates that I have heard from on the net are usually white anglo saxon americans or europeans like carl jonsson. In latin america you wont see anything of this sort.
  
  btw does anyone have any info on those 2?

  black, british, gay apostate here
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  ezekiel3

  Ridiculous premise.

  Does it matter what race a person is to identify racists comments?

  Can only Jews identify the Nazi Holocaust, whereas white German groups can't??

  The fact is that the WTS has made blatantly racist and/or derogatory statements in writing.

  Anyone of any race can identify that.

  Slimboyfat your race-card has been trumped!
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  avishai

  Shit, I'm 1/4 muppet on my mom's side. It was a shameful secret until the sixties, but after the wummer of love and all, it was cool. She was like th token muppet, even if a JW at parties. I mean, sure, kermit shuns me for being "not floppy enough," (G-D reverse racism) but I'm down with oscar (I hear tell he's not 100% muppet himself). It really helped with gesturing, and getting my point across with talks. Did it cause Jealousy? Yeah. Did I get called on the carpet because of it? YEah, aybe, i was a developing teen, and well, ya know the chairs at the circuit assembly halls? The orange a nd green velour ones? Well, all i was doing was drawing designs, but I get called in for "loose conduct". Just 'cus" I'm !/4 muppet. Taht was the beggining of the end for me. Next thing I know, I'm bonging speedballs of tide and woolite, before I finally realized i was ok.
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  Sunspot

  ANYTHING quoted from Firpo Carr gets the gets the Good Housekeeping seal of disapproval. Its as simple as that. His credibility, showoffsmanship and beard are valid reasons to dismiss anything he says as anything worthwhile.