Hard Evidence of Life After Death, is there any? (page 5)

trevor

Thanks kazar

I will not be pushed, filed, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

Be Seeing You

Number 6

Thanks for all your responses. When it comes to dealing with hard evidence of life after death, there are three classes of people, and this may remain the case for a long time to come, considering how resistant humans are to embracing radically new or different concepts.

There are those who ridicule the idea of anything beyond the grave. This category includes anybody from hard - line scientists to people who are only comfortable with the familiar, material world and really do not wish to examine any evidence that might change their minds.The will to disbelieve is far stronger than the will to believe -- though neither leads to proof and hard evidence. Some of those people caught in a cult are examples of the will to disbelieve than the will to believe when giving evidence that they are in a cult.

Then there are those who have already accepted the evidence of a continued existence beyond physical death, including people who arrived at this conclusion through an examination of hard evidence, either personal in nature or from scientifically valid sources. Included in this group are the religious - metaphysical folks, although they require no hard proof to validate their convictions, which emanate from a belief system that involves a world beyond this one.

the third group are people who are aware of the existence of psychical phenomena and the evidence for such phenomena, including case histories and scientific investigation by open - minded individuals. But they may be skeptical. For them, therefore, the need to be specific when presenting evidence or case histories, which must be fully verifiable, is paramount, as is an acceptable explanation for their occurence.

Thanks for sharing. My topic question and responses are not meant to persuade or argue reasons for or against hard evidence of life after death. This a subject that interests me and I am still out as far as being convinced of any proof for against this question. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

Blueblades

Terry

You can't get "there" from here.

1.People that claim to see ghosts or dead people often notice that they seem to be light in colour or glowing, i know this is popular in movies too, but bear with me here, 2 if an alternate dimension to our own were to exist could there be a transference between what we know as life and the ether of the unknown. This is 3 hard to measure with traditional scientific measurements, sure but if we could 4 assume that we are beings of energy(that is fact), and in relation to energy Einstien made the deduction that energy does not dissapate but rather has to make itself evident by an effect to the cause i.e the energy from an engine in a car, will upon impact with another object will transfer to other parts of the vehicle or object and be manifest in lets say, twisted metal, or sound waves.

1. People "claim".....which is to say you have to RELY on what somebody SAYS.

2.IF is a very large two-letter word. I want you to notice how many links in your reasoning chain are made of invisible (i.e. "it ain't there) conjectures.

3. "Hard to measure"? or IMPOSSSIBLE to measure? Everything we know starts at some kind of measurement. Height, width, depth, time, space, weight, money, life...you name it. If you can't measure something it doesn't exist.

4.Notice that you use the word ENERGY here. ENERGY is "what"? You have to take the time to get a handle on words like "alternate dimension" and "energy" because they are the rabbits you propose to pull out of the hat. *

If you postulate an alternate to something; you'd better first define what it is alternate to. Our own existence on this Earth in this day and this time is a reality that can be described with metaphors but, little is accomplished by using those same metaphors to prove something when what is really needed is data.

Our EXISTENCE is a______result_____of a great many things which coalesce (like weather bringing snow). Where does the "white" go when the snow melts? The question is meaningless because the "white" is entirely dependant on the coalescing of hydrogen+oxygen+temperature and light. White is not a thing to persist any more than our "existence" when our body and brain die.

Don't confuse a result with a cause.

*(In Physics you have terms such as potential energy. This does not describe a reality. It describes a situation that is conducive to a reality.

MerryMagdalene

Our EXISTENCE is a______result_____of a great many things which coalesce (like weather bringing snow). Where does the "white" go when the snow melts? The question is meaningless because the "white" is entirely dependant on the coalescing of hydrogen+oxygen+temperature and light. White is not a thing to persist any more than our "existence" when our body and brain die.

Why should our "existence" be likened only to "white" through the coalescing of the above components? Why not also to hydrogen and oxygen?

I only ask because I had a dream once in which I died in the blast of a bomb and my awareness continued in a new "form"--scattered out along with everything that had once made up my composite self. Not hard evidence of anything but it did make me curious...(and yes, I am a bit of a scatter-brain in waking life too)

~Merry

jaffacake

There is absolutely no evidence of life after death, hard or any other type. There is however belief, intuition, etc.

When our atoms scatter in the universe, can there be experience or consciousness? If so it is beyond our comprehension. As a doubting Christian, I tend to believe the glass is half full.

Blueblades

http://victorzammit.com/ This site has a lot to consider about life after death.

Blueblades

kazar

Touche Trevor.

tetrapod.sapien

LT,

instead of just releasing the physical vehicle, including the "conscious" constructs of the physical brain.

to where? is this not the same difference? your statement implies knowledge on the matter. pray tell this knowledge. is this your definition of soul?

it is precisely from what little i do understand about consciousness, and what i know of the "physical vehicle" that creates incredulity in me regarding the supernatural. in this case, life after death. if science shows that physical life and consciousness ends with the death of the brain, then any claims of life after death imply, very logically, that something supernatural has had interaction with the physical.

You're surely not as bigoted as to believe that just because science hasn't demonstrated it it cannot be true, are you?

absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. so of course there is the possibility LT! the problem i have, is with folks who are the wielders of special knowledge that science cannot prove. how convenient! i also have reason to believe that there are just some things that reductionism and science will never demonstrate to be true, like tooth fairies. of course there is just as much evidence for life after death, therefore it falls in the same category until some extra-ordinary evidence comes along. at that point i will assure you i will happily switch sides in the debate. hell, i might not even be an atheist by then!

How do you explain the NDE's where there was no brain activity?

hold on. why is the skeptic now required to explain this phenomenon? the onus really falls on the person making the NDE claim. i thought we went over this already in this thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/91072/1535608/post.ashx#1535608

however, if you want me to explain it anyways, then until some kick ass evidence for the positive comes along, i will continue to explain it with the rule of parsimony or occam's razor. all things being equal, the simplest explanation should be the preferred one. so i would explain a NDE experience the same way that almost any reductionist in june 2005 would explain it: neurological.

frankiespeakin

If all that exist springs from consciousness, or consciousness is the ground of all being (to put it another way). For if thier was no consciousness nothing would be if you follow what I'm saying.

Then I could see these near death experiences or recallections of past lives as simply consciousness being experienced by the mind on another level than ordinary consciousness. That is taking into consideration that everything is one and the duality we experience normally as an illusion of the ego dominated conscious mind, in which we see everything as seperate.

FlyingHighNow

Perhaps we have all died and this is where we ended up. When we are released from our bodies, at what we call death, we may then return to life - a bit like waking from a dream?

Trevor, I sometimes wonder about this myself. It reminds me of this John Lennon quote that I have in my profile:

"I BELIEVE IN EVERYTHING until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists even if it is in your mind. Who's to say that dreams...aren't as real as the here and now?"John Lennon

I know there is some kind of intelligent spirit life form. I've seen evidence of it with my own eyes. But was it a disembodied human? I don't know the answer to that question.

Hard Evidence of Life After Death, is there any?

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