my take...

by teejay 74 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  MegaDude

  Logan said:

  Nevertheless, I think you are guilty of the "compostion fallacy" in stating that any of the positives the JWs had/have are "moot." That's all or nothing thinking, my friend.

  You are guilty of trying pin me in one of your bookish philosophical boxes.

  A person can find positives in just about any situation or person. (read a few true survival stories that make that point) That doesn't make the situation or person good, desireable, beneficial or fill in any word you wish.

  You could say Adolph Hitler had some admirable qualities. He was focused. He could inspire people to follow him. He loved his dog. So what?

  I noticed you side-stepped my illustration of the child molester.

  My experience growing up and living in the JWs may be quite different from yours. The amount of damage one experiences from a cult experience can vary greatly depend on what your temperment is going into it, your IQ, your emotional IQ, your economic opportunities that you would have regardless of your JW experience, your parents, et cetera.

  The amount of difficulty we experienced in separating from the JWs may vary widely. I'm speaking for myself and my experience and how I experienced it through my life, my relationships, my emotions. It was negative enough that I find such philosophical musings about good things about the Watchtower moot.
• 

  logansrun

  Mega,

  I understand what you are saying and you have the right to frame your experience in any way you like. Every Witness experience is unique as you pointed out.

  Nonetheless, for pragmatic reasons alone I believe it is beneficial to frame our experiences in a positive light. This is not some sort of esoteric, overly-intellectualized philosophy, but simply how humans best react to life. It's really rather simple.

  I don't consider anyone to be "good" or "bad." Even a child-molester or Adolf Hitler had their "good" qualities -- not everything they did was "bad." Nevertheless, those are extreme examples and I don't think equating the WTS to the Nazis is fair or helpful.

  Whenever you have two groups of people -- one adamately "for" and one adamately "against" -- the truth usually is somewhere in between. I've thought this way about the JWs since the day I left. I think this is a very common-sense approach to the matter, but I'm not dogmatic about the issue.

  All best,

  Bradley
• 

  stopthepain

  Maybe some peoples lives have been affected more than others.

  MY WHOLE CHILDHOOD/adolescance WAS TAKEN FROM ME FOR NO REASON.I think I have some right to be annoyed at that.My parents with the help of that organization singled me out everywhere I went.I could not do anything unless it concerned the organization or the people in it.Yes I could pick out a few random trivial things that helped me,but it would be nothing against the things I feel I lost on.

  I have a right to my opinion,and I respect everyones here,so im glad you call me a cry baby,thats real intelligent---I hope you public speaking ability takes you far in life------by the way ,when you were 10 and your mommy was writing your talks for you,how happy were you then,being forced to go onstage agianst your wiil,do that to your kids someday,oh yeah,you wont because you no its wrong.
• 

  hillary_step

  TJ,

  Perhaps our view on our lives within the WTS very much depends on the kind of person we are within, and the kind of family and friends that we had around us.

  It also depends when we were JW's as there is no doubt that the 60's and 70's were much easier times to live within the congregations. There was certainly a much more relaxed attitude among the JW's. In the 80's Jarazc tightened his grip on the Organization and things became very difficult. A small example : I well remember after the expulsion of Raymond Franz from Brooklyn recieving letters as a temp CO demanding that elders who did to strictly stick to Public talk outlines were to be removed. I was to compare the speakers talk with the talk outline and any deviation was to be bought to his attention. This is a small cameo of a decade of rigidity which entered the WTS in those definately uglier times.

  I have seen many XJW's who are complete dysfunctional wrecks due to their experience within the walls of the WTS. I have also seen XJW's who have like myself escaped relatively unscathed, even after decades as a JW. It depends so much on what was going on around us in our social world, not just on whether we were exposed to lunatic doctrines as we all were.

  Not all XJW's suffered or indeed enjoyed the same experiences within the WTS, clear evidence that a uniform experience is not a given - to imply otherwise might mean that we are making judgments irrationally. Strangely enough I have noticed that those who were in the longest and who have the most to lose are often the ones that manage to keep their objectivity over the matter.

  Do I wish that I never was Jehovah's Witness? You bet I do. Do I think it was the worst experience of my life - no.

  Now, I am off to compose a Jehovature.

  Best regards - HS
• 

  unclebruce

  ..compose a Jehovature? bad sneeze you got there HS

  careful you don't wet ya songbook

  unclebruce
• 

  logansrun

  hillarystep,

  I have seen many XJW's who are complete dysfunctional wrecks due to their experience within the walls of the WTS. I have also seen XJW's who have like myself escaped relatively unscathed, even after decades as a JW. It depends so much on what was going on around us in our social world, not just on whether we were exposed to lunatic doctrines as we all were.

  I would say much more depends upon the individual themselves.

  Bradley
• 

  logansrun

  by the way ,when you were 10 and your mommy was writing your talks for you,how happy were you then,being forced to go onstage agianst your wiil,do that to your kids someday,oh yeah,you wont because you no its wrong.

  Personally I loved giving talks. No one ever forced me. I miss it to this day.

  Listen, you may hate me all you want, but your life is going to go a lot smoother if you give up this silly Ex-JW blame game. Give up your cultish black-and-white thinking and maybe you can talk about the JWs with some sense of intelligence and sanity.

  Bradley
• 

  stopthepain

  you must have been one of those elders ballsucks ---------it will be ok bradley,your the smartest person on this message board.there,do you feel better now.
• 

  hillary_step

  Brad,

  I would say much more depends upon the individual themselves.

  I made that point already in the part of my post that you obviously did not read.

  Best regards - HS
• 

  logansrun

  Right. I take a contrary view, point out that perhaps a more intelligent way of looking at the JWs exists and all of a sudden I'm "one of those elder ballsucks" and think I'm superior to everyone else. Right. Sure I am.

  People have a tendency -- more likely than not biological -- to think in dichotomies. "JWs good / you bad" quickly turns into "JWs bad / me good." Do people even fathom that they are thinking exactly like the JWs when they say essentially say "well, the good they do doesn't count." Hmmmm....sounds like the old JW illustration about the "good" in Christendom: "It's like a glass of water with a drop of poisen in it. "

  That was a stupid illustration then and it's a stupid illustration now. The Witness organization has not done any "irreperable" harm to anyone. Was it a completely loving and enlightened way of life. Hell no. But it wasn't that bad either.

  Rise above your own biases. Or...don't. It's your life!

  B.