What is the true Christian religion / faith?

by evergreen 79 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Narkissos

Terry,
So you finally found the Truth, didn't you?
The "obsessive-compulsive neurotics hell-bent on reassembling the ravings of lunatics from dark ages hence" want to know...
LittleToe

Flash:
The Devil is literal, the Wild Beast and the False Prophet are symbolic as is the Lake of Fire. Good point though, v10 contains both literal and symbolic information.

So what about all the other wee minions of Satan? Don't they get the butane treatment?
Surely "Devil" is representative of a wider group, too?
I'm enjoying our exchanges, btw
Terry:
There is no TRUE Christian faith. Period!
If you mean a single Christian religion that has it right, I wholeheartedly agreed. Though I question most of the rest of your definitions, and honestly don't know where to begin. It's so far removed from my paradigm, that I must humble submit that I'm left in doubt of the depth of your biblio-theological study. Of course that doesn't mean that I wouldn't share a beer with ya
I would just like to tackle this common misconception, though:
Most of the human suffering have come from people completely devout in their utter conviction that they were right and the person they were killing was wrong and deserving of punishment.
Given that most people have some kind of conviction that they act upon (and in the times of the most radical atrocities, that was potentially most of the historically recorded worlds population), what do you think the proportion was between such man-slayers and those who didn't indulge?
I would posit that most people are just people, regardless of beliefs or lack thereof.
Is Chechnya a religiously motivated hotspot? What about Tibet?
I think Communism gives us an ideal opportunity to examine the human condition, free of the distinctively religious overtones. IMHO the result undermines your argument.
Nonetheless, you've provided another thought-provoking post
LT, of the "obsessive-compulsive neurotics hell-bent on reassembling the ravings of lunatics from dark ages hence" class.
evergreen

Terry
Don't waste any more time in this pursuit. Get on with your life. Make something wonderful out of it by using YOUR OWN MIND. Don't get bogged down searching for a treasure map in the dumpster of history. Look at the "bible" for what it is: tens of thousands of scraps of garbage dug out of caves that has rotted and been pieced together by guesswork and the endless toil of obsessive-compulsive neurotics hell-bent on reassembling the ravings of lunatics from dark ages hence.
lol ,,where do i begin.,,lol
Boy are you anti religion.I think i understand why you feel this way.Before i became a JW i was born into a religion that quite frankly sums up much of what you have said here.I hated religion and viewed it as the cause of many conflicts and wars or at least adding fuel to the flames.
I hated religion for all the trouble it had and still is causing in the world.I gave up on religion from about the age of 16 up untill i was about 23. Not long ,i know but i simply couldnt equate the picture i had of Jesus that was being preached from the pulpit to his so called followers that were and have been heavily involved in the many of the terrible things that have happened right down through history.
But when i became religous again after studying with the witnesses, i could now see the jesus ( to an extent /at the time ) that i pictured when i was a boy.Now that i am at a crossroads again in connection with my faith , I still sincerely believe in those pages in the bible.I believe that they were inspired .You only have to look at the prophecies ,the history ,the science of the bible pages and see it is accurate.
Jesus miracles were seen by many eye witnesses and written down for us,and at least we can have the hope of seeing our loved ones again. If not what else is there. Just nothing.
I used to have awful nightmares when i didnt believe in anything .I always used to have a dream that i was in an accident and then all i could see was blackness / nothing and i always woke up in a terrible sweat,and it really did scare me.I even went and bought a book on dreams and interpreting them to find out the meaning of this dream.It was here that i read about certain individuals in the bible had dreams and it was then i decided to read the bible ( even my own mother who was studying with the witnesse for years couldnt get me to read a bible as i was so anti religion).
It was from here i began to dig a little further and the rest is history. I have been there before re not having a faith and i couldnt cope with it. I truly need some sort of faith in my life . I want to at least have a hope for the future. I truly do believe in the message Jesus gave us and try to follow his path in life. But at the same time i will get on with my life and not allow myself to get bogged down by man made (WT) rules!
Thankyou for your views though.
Navigator

You would all do well to go back and read the post by James Thomas. He was "spot on" when he said: "You are the treasure you are seeking.". The only teacher we need resides within us.
heathen

Flash --- I am positive I was not a dub . I did read alot of the publications and study from time to time but never went thru the ritual of baptism and becoming a minister . I was baptized by the catholic church as an infant tho , didn't have much to say about that at the time . Still don't consider myself catholic and will never participate in the religion as I think it's the whore of babylon . You know the catholic church (vatican) is a national member of the UN and gave it's whole hearted support to the idea that the UN was the answer to the peace and security problem among mankind . I too believe that the parts about the beasts are part of todays situation and not about rome or some other belief that can't be proven . The WTBTS did make some sense on some issues but still is a horrid religion to be a member of . They seem to only care about raising money from selling publications and they go too far when they say the WTBTS is the mediator of the new covenant for the great crowd ( it's what I've seen discussed on the board).There is only one mediator and that is jesus christ .
Flash

LT
Flash:
The Devil is literal, the Wild Beast and the False Prophet are symbolic as is the Lake of Fire. Good point though, v10 contains both literal and symbolic information.
So what about all the other wee minions of Satan? Don't they get the butane treatment?
Surely "Devil" is representative of a wider group, too?
Another good question. The Demons outcome is the same as the Devils. It does call into question the literalness of the word "Devil" in this scripture.
I'm enjoying our exchanges, btw
Me Too!
........................................................
Heathen
Flash --- I am positive I was not a dub . I did read alot of the publications and study from time to time but never went thru the ritual of baptism and becoming a minister . I was baptized by the catholic church as an infant tho , didn't have much to say about that at the time . Still don't consider myself catholic and will never participate in the religion as I think it's the whore of babylon...
...The WTBTS did make some sense on some issues but still is a horrid religion to be a member of .They seem to only care about raising money from selling publications and they go too far when they say the WTBTS is the mediator of the new covenant for the great crowd ( it's what I've seen discussed on the board).There is only one mediator and that is jesus christ .
Smart move in both areas! I was a Catholic too, I left for the Witnesses and I still am a Witness general speaking concerning their 'primary teachings.' Their cult mentality I have NO use for.
heathen

OHHH come on guys . The Devil is literal . I don't think it could be more obvious in the bible . Jesus was tempted by the devil and exspelled many demons . Revelation depicts the Devil as the dragon and original serpent that drags one third of the stars in his tail when removed from heaven . The stars are believed to be fallen angels .
Terry

LittleToe exclaims: Is Chechnya a religiously motivated hotspot? What about Tibet?
I think Communism gives us an ideal opportunity to examine the human condition, free of the distinctively religious overtones. IMHO the result undermines your argument.

Communism is often spoken of as an atheistic philosophy. That does not keep it from being, for all intents and purposes, a group united in a single cause and an insuperable central dogma. There have been as many true believers in Communism as in any Christian religious denomination. The idea that it was necessary to kill the weak and replace them with the "right" government reflects the same attitude as Joshua invading the promised land and slaughtering the inhabitants because Jews wanted their goodies and were much holier and more deserving.
An idealogue is a believer. Maybe not in God as a person; but, in a god substitute that is just as virulent. So, I'll award you your point well made if you understand what my parameters are.
Terry

Evergreen assuages: But when i became religous again after studying with the witnesses, i could now see the jesus ( to an extent /at the time ) that i pictured when i was a boy.Now that i am at a crossroads again in connection with my faith , I still sincerely believe in those pages in the bible.I believe that they were inspired .You only have to look at the prophecies ,the history ,the science of the bible pages and see it is accurate.
Jesus miracles were seen by many eye witnesses and written down for us,and at least we can have the hope of seeing our loved ones again. If not what else is there. Just nothing.

I've read everything I can get my hands on about Jesus and his life and times. I've concentrated on the period of time in which the gospels were appearing here and there. I've focused on who was involved in deciding which stories were canonical and which were not. The same people who gave us the Trinity, immortality of the soul, Hell, the Apostle's creed, church politics, ad infinitum gave us the canon of the Bible.
I'd love to think Jesus was an historical person; but, all the evidence I read tells me he is lost to history. His mythos remains as a shadow of what the man might have been. It is my firm conviction that what we call Christianity is a pure invention from the man Paul. Just about everything that is Jehovah's Witness comes from Paul. I think Paul hijacked the Jewish religion and morphed it into a pagan philosophy that grafted a new thing not quite seen before.
The more I study and learn the more I'm convinced that we are very vulnerable to what we have been told about Jesus when we were widdle kids. I'm in love with that beautiful story too. But, I'm too old to jump into the magic circle like Mary Poppins jumped into Bert's chalk drawings to make them come alive.
I love religious people; but, you are quite right; I do hate religion. Religion is a limp balloon that very nice people keep puffing hot air into to make it come alive.
Flash

OHHH come on guys . The Devil is literal .

Heathen, we're not saying he is not a real person, we're debating just 'how singularly literal' he is in Rev 20:10. He is listed as being thrown in the Lake of Fire with the Wild Beast and the False Prophet which are both symbolic. Basicaly LT asked 'aren't the Demons getting torched too along with the Devil?' So the 'Devil' in Rev 20:10 would be signifing both Satan and his followers.

What is the true Christian religion / faith?

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