No judicial action, even with 2+ witnesses

by cyberguy 26 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  Pole

  Please will you all search the web for medical conclusions on 'repressed memories'...not the memory carried through life but a 'popped up' memory helped by some modern-day medicos..........and don't condemn the society. condemn the mind specialists who have concluded that nothing can be guaranteed from statements of 'repressed memory'. what else can the society conclude? that they know better? hardly. It is hard not to be annoyed at such arrogant condemnatory conclusions and misleading settings used by those posting on this subject. If you can't find the reports from the top psychiatrists etc, pm me please. gdt

  gdt, I'm so sorry there are still "some posters" here who miss the point which Blondie made:

  The WTS who has no skilled psychiatrists, psychologist, or doctors in this field but of course has an opinionn; they will also discourage victims from going to anyone qualified. The elders are definitely not qualified to make this assessment of someone's memories.

  I don't give a flyin' f about your "reports from the top psychiatrists". The point is that no "body of elders" should give it either! "The society" should be condemned because they give elders specific instructions (e.g. through WT articles such as the one qouted above) to decide on matters which should be investigated by specialists. Such instructions give elders the utterly false impression that they actually know something about dealing with child molestation issues. Even if it is an ambigous case they should report it to the authorities immediately, so that experts can investigate it. This is something that this article should have said. Isn't that simple? Please tell me, what kind of pedophilia experts do you have on your local congo's judiciary committee? 2 plumbers and a postman who've read a piece of crap like the said WT article? If those blockheads fear about the potentially "unfair" outcome of such "a wordly investigation" then let them pray and beg Jehoobar to get things straight. I don't care. But don't let these ignorants break people's lives by following 2-paragraph info about a complex psychological problem. The WTS writers know that they have ultimate control which they clearly misuse for fear of generating too much negative publicity. I hope they'll get busted for it soon enough.
• 

  Scully

  Please will you all search the web for medical conclusions on 'repressed memories'...not the memory carried through life but a 'popped up' memory helped by some modern-day medicos..........and don't condemn the society. condemn the mind specialists who have concluded that nothing can be guaranteed from statements of 'repressed memory'. what else can the society conclude? that they know better? hardly. It is hard not to be annoyed at such arrogant condemnatory conclusions and misleading settings used by those posting on this subject. If you can't find the reports from the top psychiatrists etc, pm me please. gdt

  The problem is that many people do not have "repressed memories" that pop up suddenly - they have REAL memories of ACTUAL EVENTS that happened to them that they have been coerced or compelled to "shut up about" for years and years and years, so as not to Bring Reproach on Jehovah?.

  To lump these people in with the False Memory Syndrome group is to arrogantly dismiss out of hand the extraordinary burden of emotional pain these people have suffered. It certainly doesn't come across as compassionate or caring (or "shepherding the flock of God in your care", as Jesus instructed). For those with recollections of abuse, it certainly doesn't create an atmosphere of trust where they could be confident that the ones they are supposed to be able to go to for spiritual comfort will believe them and sincerely want to help them.

  The bottom line: it isn't the elders' job to diagnose anyone with False Memory Syndrome, particularly when their agenda could include the protection of one of their own from investigation by the proper authorities. In all cases, they should be referring people to trained professionals for counselling and diagnosis, instead of telling them not to go to a "shrink" or that they need to go out in service more or pray more.

  I find it quite interesting that while for many years the WTS's official position dismissed psychiatry as quackery, yet when it suits their purposes, they will glom on to things like False Memory Syndrome as perfectly valid and hold it up as a beacon of light in their publications.

  Love, Scully
• 

  XQsThaiPoes

  Actually they are pro psychiatry anytime it makes an opponent crazy. When an insane JW lashes out they can be discounted as a sick indiviual that does not represent JWs as a whole. Notice if psychiatry was a quack you could not say this. THe thing is is that I am facing is to JWs no JW is "crazy enought" to need medical help until after the fact.
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  garybuss

  Equal application of principle would call for us to apply the rule that, if there were not two or more witnesses to an event it did not happen, to all claims made by the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation(s) and by it's private label religion, Jehovah's Witnesses. Let's start with the publication called The Bible and the mystical experience of Jesus meeting Paul on the dusty dirt road. No witnesses? Sorry, it didn't happen! And on . . . and on . . .
  
  Field service reports? Unless you had two ready witnesses, you were never at that door sucker and you never got in that two hours last month:-)
  
  
  
• 

  Undaunted Danny

  Willful obstruction of justice and the subornation of perjury.

  Cover up,and U 'R gonna get 'covered up'!

  Undaunted Danny's take on the 'two witness take-down': What I find most offensive of all JW sleaze is the notorious,"Two Witness Take-down".Simply put,if a JW perpetrator stabs me in the back and the entire congregation sees it happen....

  ....Unless "Two Witnesses" are willing to come forward and testify, they pretend it never happened.No matter how wicked the offense may be. I have been on the receiving end of the assault many times.The grievance protocol of Matt.18:15 becomes unworkable,because the perpetrator has LIED and the issue will continue to fester. These,Watchtower wise guy's mealy-mouth elders,now off their ecclesiastical legal hook, proceed by ordering me to,"JUS FAGETT A BOUT IT". Moreover,they counsel me on my lack of forgiveness and how I should consider 'getting my head examined' for being such a paranoid mental case. ( My case @ the Rockland Massachusetts Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses congregation ca.1992 click my bio/profile over yonder for some info)

  This absurdity (the need of two witnesses) is an overextension of 2 Corn.13:1 and is selectively enforced at the whim of the elders who play favorites. Another take on the so called,"two witness take-down". All of the WT$ policy's are derived from legal counsel. The Lawyers have run the show since the early1980's.This is due to the massive onslaught of lawsuits brought on by the Watchtower's own fraudulent defaults. The Watchtower's primary interest is the preservation of their vast real estate holdings[WT$ 'never-land ranch' complex.] If it wasn't for the Lawyers in control the Watchtower would be $ued out of existence. Matt. 10:16 states "To be cautious as a serpent, but innocent as a dove" The Watchtower's twisted mindset takes this to mean. ..... Taking an OBSTRUCTIONIST APPROACH by subterfuge of their ecclesiastical kangaroo courts to all claims against them. It's all conniving confabulation from the top down. This is the chief curricula (sleaze 101) that elders learn when they go off to their exclusive elders school seminars.Tactical tips on suborning perjury is what they call at kingdom school,"AOP" or Approved Operating Procedure. Get into a jam we will cop-a-plea-we-a-o-p. They are the,control freaks with a mean streak, oppressive wolves in sheep's clothing' that Jesus and the apostle Paul warned about. To quote attorney;Jeff Anderson in a bold newspaper article that appeared in my hometown paper,Bangor Daily News :"They have a practice of giving sanctuary to known pedophiles".
  [ Joshua 22:20:"When Achan son of Zerah acted unfaithfully regarding the devoted things, did not wrath come upon the whole community of Israel? He was not the only one who died for his sin."] Like in the case of Achan's clan in the Old Testament;"they covered-up and they "got covered up"
  [2 Corn.11: 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. ]
  Satan the devil is the father of all these cover ups. God knows this and no one will mock him........ Undaunted Danny Haszard Bangor Maine "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion,but not their own facts".D.M.
• 

  metatron

  It goes beyond even this. In my own case, two or more elders knew about my daughter's abuse and covered it up.

  They lied about it and later, admitted it. The Society did nothing. Behind the wall of pretense they erect, they will do anything

  they feel they can get away with, including fraud, and even manslaughter.

  metatron
• 

  cyber-sista

  The WTS who has no skilled psychiatrists, psychologist, or doctors in this field but of course has an opinionn; they will also discourage victims from going to anyone qualified. The elders are definitely not qualified to make this assessment of someone's memories.

  I have seen over the years uneducated, uninformed,ignorant men (AKA elders) give terrrible advice to those under mental distress.

  I have also seen the elders and the society out and out lie. Another incident that slapped me out of my WT state of denial there at the end was a case involving child molesting. This is what I was told by a sister who I know very well.: She and some of the other sisters noticed that one young boy in their congo was displaying sexual diviant behaviour when playing with their children. the mother of the boy had recently broken up with her husband who was from a very prominent JW family in their area. The wife accused then accused the husband of molesting their son. It was a complex story, but the upshot of it was the elders told the sisters that it was against the law in their state for a minister to report a case of child molesting. It was against the law for a minister in their state to report a case of child molesting. When the sister told me this I actually had her repeat it to me and she herself admitted that it was a funny sounding law. Of course then since all JWs are ministers none of them could report it. The elders told them they had talked to the society and they were handling it and not to talk about it. I immediately went online and did some investigation into the laws in that state and no such law exists, which I knew. I then wrote the sister back and asked about it again without giving her any of the information I knew and exactly what the elders had said to her. She had been confiding in me about it, but never wrote me back. I sent her another email and she never responded to me about the incident again. After that I looked up some news articles and found silent lambs and the American family foundation. Like Danny Hazard has said before--to finally wake up from the WT is a surreal horror. To know that I was a played a part in promoting an Organization that is operating in this manner is not something I will ever be proud of. I guess we can at least be proud of the fact that we had the guts to leave despite the consequences.
• 

  avishai

  Of course then since all JWs are ministers none of them could report it. The elders told them they had talked to the society and they were handling it and not to talk about it

  Of course, since all JW's are ministers, they're ALL bound by mandatory reproting laws!!!!.
• 

  willyloman

  I guess we can at least be proud of the fact that we had the guts to leave despite the consequences.

  That's a conscientious act of courage, right there.
• 

  Big Tex

  gdt, if you are really interested in a discussion on repressed memories, here is a good starting point:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/53848/1.ashx

  It's a bit long, but the information contained there might be of some help to you.

  The bottom line: it isn't the elders' job to diagnose anyone with False Memory Syndrome, particularly when their agenda could include the protection of one of their own from investigation by the proper authorities. In all cases, they should be referring people to trained professionals for counselling and diagnosis, instead of telling them not to go to a "shrink" or that they need to go out in service more or pray more.

  I couldn't have said it better myself. Repressed memories are the red herring here. The focus of the organization should be on providing spiritual comfort to someone who is depressed, or suffering from abuse. I would not want to see elders providing psychological counseling, or diagnosis. I think it would be the humane thing, even the Christian thing, to help that person find a good, solid psychologist trained in adult survivors of abuse.

  But even moreso, it should be the elders' job to help such a person with their spiritual issues. Abuse survivors have tremendous issues with spirituality. And yet they abrogate this responsibilty by lecturing victims on meeting attendance and service. They do so because this is not a place of spirituality, but a book selling operation where the only real focus is on how much literature is sold, therefore how much money is generated for the parent company.