Abortion...

by Lostreality 215 Replies latest jw friends

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    As debates of this type go this one's quite civil.

    Normally the problem boils down to the impossibility of two different paradigms reaching an agreement.

    In the anti-choice lobby we normally see claims that even a zygote or blastocyst is equivalent to a fully grown human. This is either based on assumptions of equivalancy or on a religious belief that life is sacred from conception. Often, but not always, this opinion is coupled with one of extreme sexual conservatism, such as the advocacy of abstinance-based sex educaton.

    On the pro-choice side we generally see a desire for thorough sex education and easy availability of contraception to reduce pregnancies caused by contraceptive ignorance, easy availability of the morning-after pill to cater for contraceptive accidents, and easy availability of early term abortions for those contraceptive accidents that pass unnoticed until a period is missed.

    The assumptions of equivalency or sacredness mean nothing to the pro-choice lobby.

    An argument showing, for example a 12 week-old fetus might look like a tiny 2 inch long human, but it ONLY looks human as it has less nerve tissue than a rat, likewise mean nothing to those who've made assumptions of equivalency or who foster a faith-based belief that restricts abortion.

    Thus people argue from their respetive corners, and often the arguments mean nothing to the opposite corner.

    A seemingly reasonable balance is to set an upper limit for when abortions may be performed for reasons other than the mother health, an dlet people decide themselves. However, those that feel even this is tantamount to allowing murder are never happy with such a compromise.

    Yiz: what someone may or may not think or how they may have changed their opinion is not an argument that reflects whether abortion is right or wrong. For example; JCanon thinks he is Jesus. That doesn't mean he's right.

  • Doubtfully Yours
    Doubtfully Yours

    Pro-choice.

    DY

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    A very good assessment of the polarity in this issue Abaddon. But just for the record... I am in favor of keeping abortion legal (morally, I am certainly against late-stage abortion unless death of mother or unborn child is imminent, as well as "convenience" abortion.) AND I believe wholeheartedly in the sanctity of life. I also believe that life begins at conception, so the question of "should" people have an abortion is very different to me than the question of whether it be legal. --------

    Sometimes one must choose between two things where neither choice is satisfactory...I think this is definitely the case here.

    The people who would argue that a baby's life has more value than an adult... the reasoning is flawed. According to their own reasoning, every life has equal weight and value. I don't know if I buy this idea, but I do know that if a child is hopelessly ill or deformed while in utero, it should be easy, EASY for the mother to terminate the pregnancy. If a 13 year old girl is molested and ends up pregnant, it should be EASY for her to get access to early termination. (All other issues aside of protecting the child --- yes, the 13 year old CHILD--- from the situation, including the cost emotionally, mentally, and PHYSICALLY of carrying a rapist's baby to term at that age.) If a woman is living on the streets, or is mentally ill, or hospitalized, or disabled and under care of families or the health system... quality of life (future for the unborn child) is no less a consideration than the impact on the mother or all other caretakers. In some cases there may be someone to step up and take a full-term child, in others...

    Contrary to popular belief and anti-abortion arguments, there is NOT a "shortage" of children for people to adopt. There is a "shortage" of CAUCASIAN NEWBORN INFANTS. Anyone who is willing (and able) to adopt a child could adopt 10 tomorrow if they were willing to take a child who was of some other ethnicity, special needs, or over the age of 1 year. This argument of "there are always people wanting to adopt, all babies could have a home..." is flawed.

    I have yet to personally meet a vehement anti-abortionist who has adopted a crack baby from a teenage mother who is living on the streets. I know there are people who do, you read about them in Reader's Digest. That's why their stories are in there, almost nobody does it. Live your truth. If adoption is your main solution, adopt.

    In this society the solution is NOT banning abortion, the solution is making sure pregnancy prevention is easily available. For instance, insurance provided birth control. When you don't have enough food to eat, you are not paying $30/month for the pill, even if a baby is more expensive in the long run. For instance, making it easy to get emergency contraceptive, making it easy for women in a bad situation who end up pregnant to live safely and get straightened out and/or give up the child should they choose. Making it easy for girls under the age of consent to get birth control without parental permission or knowledge.

    The answer to the problem is to choose the most ETHICAL scenario possible, given the REALITY of human behavior. It does not always directly correlate with peoples' MORAL beliefs. Hopefully, though, it provides for situation that gives the greatest aid and least damage to the most. I think the mention of Japan's pregnancy and termination statistics show clearly that there are other ways to do this.

    O

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Very VERY well said Odrade. It's amazing to me that the solution for probably 90% of the problem is here, and being ignored. The morning after pill could make much of this discussion virtually moot. All it would take is information and easy access (otc). The type of people who would, after consideration, have moral problems with using it would comprise a miniscule fraction of the population.

  • El Kabong
    El Kabong

    Wow. Great post Odrade!! A Fair and Balanced view of the topic. (fair and balanced - not to be confused with the Fox News Network )

    Sometimes in life, someone may be faced with a decision that they don't want to make. However, I feel that everyone should have the right to make the choice that's right for their particular situation. No one else has the right to make a choice for someone else. No matter how good their intentions may be.

  • bebu
    bebu

    I like the concept that no one else has the right to make a choice for someone else... but the trouble is, it truly appears that is exactly what happens in abortion. Someone makes a choice for someone else to die. If a life is to be forfeited, there really has to be extraordinary justification.

    This issue is complex! So, I think the easiest way to work thru it is to find the common ground FIRST.

    The ultra-hard-core pro-choice lobbyists refuse to acquiesce to outlawing D&E abortions. The ultra-hard-core pro-lifers believe abortion is NEVER allowed. If we cut off these extremes, we'd get closer to making sure that there is enough 'play' for unusual circumstances, that mothers are informed about fetal development, and that viable infants are not killed for mere convenience, for example. For example, the phrase "the mother's physical or emotional health" is the loophole that eventually permits abortion thruout the 9 months, because any abortion provider will shrug and claim such for their patient.

    So: outlaw D&E abortions as a start. Require information about fetal development by abortion providers--perhaps require ultrasounds to be given as part of the exam before an appointment for abortion is set.

    These may seem inconvenient, and they do not solve all issues. Many abortions will still be permitted with these rules. But if we are to find middle ground, it takes compromises from both sides. Who knows? As time and technology go on, abortion might become obsolete, or perhaps become as popular as apartheid...

    BTW: I am so tired of the name-calling going on, from either side. We need to focus on the problem, and part of that means we refrain from calling the other side stubborn, pompous, ignorant, etc. Name-calling only alienates the people with whom we need to work toward a solution.

    bebu

  • truthseeker1
    truthseeker1

    The way I see it, abortion isn't about one side choosing life and the other side choosing murder. Its two groups who have a different definition of when a human life starts.

  • bebu
    bebu
    a different definition of when a human life starts

    I agree!

    bebu

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    Actually, most have refrained from any name calling in this thread. 7 pages mostly civil and well reasoned from both sides, not an easy task when it's such an emotional issue.

    Truthseeker. I will say it one more time. Just because a person believes that abortion should continue to be legal, does NOT necessarily mean that they believe the developing embryo is not yet alive and individual.

  • El Kabong
    El Kabong
    BTW: I am so tired of the name-calling going on, from either side. We need to focus on the problem, and part of that means we refrain from calling the other side stubborn, pompous, ignorant, etc. Name-calling only alienates the people with whom we need to work toward a solution

    I'm sorry, but I just went back and skimmed through the 7 pages of this topic and quite honestly, I've found the discussion to be civil for the most part.

    I really didn't see any exampes of name calling.

    Edited to add: Sorry Odrade, didn't see your comment above basically saying the same thing.

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