by Sookie 108 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I'm hoping someone can help me out. Based upon the belief that death acquits a person of sin, do JWs believe that ALL those (JWs and non-JWs) who die before Armageddon arrives will be ressurected? Just for my reference, can someone show me where this can be found in the Bible?
Thanks!
Sookie
The JW belief system, at its best, claims that eternal death is the penalty for sin. Any release from the death state is a result of divine mercy. This is not seen to conflict with Jesus paying the ransom price, as he remained dead as a human creature (according to this view) and was raised a spirit.
But there have been times when Romans 6:7 has been used as a proof text to indicate that those to be resurrected during the Millennium have paid their penalty simply by being dead for awhile. In the NWT this reads: "For he who has died has been acquitted from his sin." By taking this as a general statement with universal application, the WT has inserted a contradiction into its own theology. Where, then, would be the need for Christ's ransom at all - if all one needed to do was to die and then come back? That would amount to paying the penalty for one's own sin and still being saved! And, yes, it would also make it even more arbitrary that the people who die at Armageddon can't be resurrected, while those who die before Armageddon can.
But the context of Romans 6:7 (if you'll read verses 1-11) indicates that the ones who have died and been acquitted of their sin are those who die with Christ. In other words, they have already benefitted from the ransom and are united with Christ in his death. That is why they are acquitted. (Of course, the WT would say this only applies to the 144,000.) Why they would say that Romans 6:7 has a general application rather than one which is specific to its context is anyone's guess. Perhaps the F&DS fell asleep on the job!
Thanks Justin! It is quite confusing to figure out, especially Romans 6. You bring up some interesting points. Let me see if I understand your explanation correctly. JWs believe that the people who have died, who aren't 144,000, will have an eternal death?
Sookie
Never being a dub, I can only tell you what MOST Christians believe. Everyone's spirit survives death, not just the 144,000. What's the point of soul sleep anyways? Death is but a doorway. The Ressurection will encompass everyone - some sooner than others. The following is from Matthew 27:
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
The word "slept" used in vs. 52 is a metaphor for death, since the Jews (for the most part) believed that the soul survives death.
My understanding over the years was always like this.
Death is the punishment for sin , so therefore the slate is wiped clean when a person dies. The Earthly resurrection to take place in the Millenium , would include almost all the dead. (John 5.28..29) However, there are two exceptions
a] the ones judged by God as being unworthy, like the Pharisses that Jesus said were going to Gehenna, and some others who may not be known
b] Those who were part of the "First Ressurection " to the spirit world , that took place in 1918, or was it 1919? or sometime after 1914? Hell, I cant remember!.. Anyway they and the rest of the 144000 go upstairs to heaven
The rest of us who may be alive at Armageddon are doomed to eternal death unles we change our ways and join the Great Crowd who are preserved alive
I did not say that makes sense.. but that is what they teach ,, and what I believed for all those wasted years
*** it-2 p. 788 Resurrection ***
Time
of the earthly resurrection. We note that this judgment is placed in the Bible in the account of events occurring during Christ?s Thousand Year Reign with his associate kings and priests. These, the apostle Paul said, "will judge the world." (1Co 6:2) "The great and the small," persons from all walks of life, will be there, to be judged impartially. They are "judged out of those things written in the scrolls" that will be opened then. This could not mean the record of their past lives nor a set of rules that judges them on the basis of their past lives. For since "the wages sin pays is death," these by their death have received the wages of their sin in the past. (Ro 6:7, 23) Now they are resurrected that they might demonstrate their attitude toward God and whether they wish to take hold of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ that was given for all. (Mt 20:28; Joh 3:16) Though their past sins are not accounted to them, they need the ransom to lift them up to perfection. They must make their minds over from their former way of life and thought in harmony with God?s will and regulations for the earth and its population. Accordingly, "the scrolls" evidently set forth the will and law of God for them during that Judgment Day, their faith and their obedience to these things being the basis for judgment and for writing their names indelibly, at last, into "the scroll of life."Resurrection
to Life and to Judgment. Jesus gave the comforting assurance to mankind: "The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. . . . Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."?Joh 5:25-29.
*** w96 7/1 p. 22 The Triumph of True Worship Draws Near ***
According to the Bible, all people alive today who continue living to the end of this wicked system and who are judged to be enemies of true worship will undergo the "judicial punishment of everlasting destruction." (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9; see also Matthew 25:31-33, 46.) They will not have a resurrection. Likely, then, the ones "left remaining" include the members of the nations who died before God?s final war and for whom there is a Bible-based hope of a resurrection. "The hour is coming," Jesus promised, "in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."?John 5:28, 29.
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vi pp. 27-28 Victory Over Death?Is It Possible for You? ***47
For the applying of Christ?s ransom to the world of mankind to take place, there must be a return to life of dead human souls from the memorial tombs. So God?s Kingdom by Christ will accomplish a resurrection of billions of dead humans just as God?s Word assures us: "And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds." (Revelation 20:13)
Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment
......for you are like whitewashed tombs
Their throat is an open grave......
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......to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things?
.....And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
The WTS once taught that people today are living in a "judgment period." The statement below says, "those who have not lived during a judgment period and who did not know of Jehovah's requirements and ignorantly practiced vile things will come back." That implies that 'those who are living during a judgment period who know of Jehovah's requirements (through the preaching of JWs) and knowingly practice vile things will not come back.' (There is no scriptural basis for this teaching.) *** w51 7/15 446 Questions from Readers ***
*** w89 5/1 19 Worship the Creator, Not The Creation ***
Since 1995, the WTS, teaches that Christ will not arrive in heavenly glory with the angels until the great tribulation. Because JWs no longer teach that people are living in a judgment period, that is why JWs can confidently say that any person who dies JW or non-JW before Armageddon will be resurrected. It used to be an iffy thing.
Blondie
Sookie,
I hope the other posters have by now answered your question. I thought you were an ex-JW yourself and would understand my answer, but apparently not. The point I was making was that dying is not the penalty for sin; death is. So by interpretting Romans 6 the way it does, the Watchtower is contradicting its own beliefs.
JWs believe there are two salvations, one earthly and the other heavenly. According to JWs, the people who receive the heavenly salvation must die as humans and forfeit human life forever, like Jesus did. But because they themselves are sinful, God accounts them as having shared with Jesus in his death in order that they may have the same kind of resurrection as Jesus did. The Watchtower limits this experience to the 144,000, whereas other Christians do not think it is limited to this small number. You may have friends who claim to be "born again." They would not use the same kind of language as JWs, but they are claiming to have had the same experience as the 144,000 group.
The earthly salvation is for people who will (according to JWs) actually be restored to human perfection on the paradise earth. They are not counted righteous in order to die with Jesus, but will actually grow back to perfection here on earth.
So the point I was making was that people are not acquitted from sin simply because they die. It is an inconsistency in the JW belief system to claim this.
