Please help! Non Witness needs advice as to what went wrong w/Witness ex

by AngelofEventide 27 Replies latest social relationships

  • AngelofEventide
    AngelofEventide

    Thanks everyone for replying. I feel like I should clarify a few things up front. I am in no way considering becoming a witness, so I have already run and run fast, as most have put it.

    As far as ex goes, if I even tried to show him any material he would never look at it. I tried this this last weekend when we were at a book store and I saw a book written by a former member on her abuse from their "cult" and how she was urging all still in it to get out as soon as they could. I asked him, sort of to see his reaction, why would someone purposely write such a horrible book, if absolutely none of it were true. He gave me some weak answer saying something like she didn't get out of it what she wanted, so she wanted to scare peopled and make it a bad experience for anyone else. He said he's read several of those books before to see what they said and that they were all BS! What's so amazing to me is, he is such an open-minded far reaching person in his normal every day thoughts in so many ways. When I comes to the JW however, they can do no wrong.

    As far as the attendence issue goes, he can't go to the hall in person because there is something there that causes him great allergies, so he usually calls in a on phone-in line and listens. When I was there last weekend, he did not call in, and instead sat down and wrote to his kids. I asked him wasn't he going to call in and listen to him meeting? And he said writing to his kids was more important. This was a bit surprising to me, because of all that I have heard about their devotion to the meetings. I have started putting a lot of things together, his recent behavior, their upcoming April 4 celebration and wonder now if his recent behavior, if any of it was intentional. No don't worry, even if he was trying to save me indirectly from joining his religion, I am not going to run to him or anything. He made a comment when he was breaking up with me when he said how our beliefs are too different, a comment that was very unwitness like since they are supposed to do everything in their power to try to convert you and he said that he was trying to save us a lifetime of pain now, that he knows that I would come to resent him down the road and he me, since I could never adhere to their beliefs and practices and that he didn't want us to end up hating each other.

    The freedom to remarry thing, he did mention that. He went to the elders and asked them what their views were on marrying a non-witness. They said that they would not prefer it, but that I would be welcome to attend with him and I would not be judged. He would not be excommunicated, but that he would have to start back at square one and work his way up in the faith again. Huh?! For marrying someone of a different faith? That is not God's will. But I could tell that they were trying to dissuade him at all costs since they were trying to force him through guilt to stay in this marriage at all costs, despite the conditions he was living in. He has been miserable for the last 6 years of the marriage. As far as what was I thinking dating a married man? I have never done that and as naive as it may sound, at first he presented himself as single and then when he told me he was going through a divorce, I questioned him extensively as to where he was in his life emotionally with all this. He had been legally separated when we met for 6 months and had started dating again. He was getting ready to file, was moving on his life, had no feelings for her and hadn't for a long time and she beat him to the punch. It was so odd because he was so completely ready to sign the papers and everything, at least he was convinced of that in his own mind and when he analyzed "us" he never felt it was a rebound thing. Neither did I and had I thought even remotely that it was a rebound thing, I would have never let it progress. Yes, we were intimate and I suppose if the elders ever found out that would be grounds for him to be excommunicated. We talked a long time about this before acting on it, because I did not want to get him in trouble. But he said he felt because his soon to be ex already sinned in her mind, leaving him for another man who is in prison no less (he is going to be paroled soon), that was grounds for him to be free to move on, because she had been unfaithful even in her heart. Now he says he is not sure if she was truly unfaithful in her heart and if she was just saying she was to hurt him. I think he is in severe denial from all that he has told me about her and like you all said, he is feeling the pressure and/or guilt from the elders. And he's probably feeling guilty now for being intimate with me, despite being in love with me. Whenever he mentioned trying to make it work with her, 99% of the time it was "for the kids' sake". Now I realize maybe all along it was because of the fear of being completely excommunicated and his children shunning him. That would kill him as his kids are everything to him.

    He has told me that his way of thinking about the faith is considered "liberal" to most witnesses, that he does not adhere 100% to some of their beliefs. Like I mentioned above, he is very opened minded about most things and maybe this open-mindedness has, whether he realizes it or not, shined a tiny bit of light of question or doubt, if in fact he does not adhere 100%. His whole thing is, even if he were not a witness, it would not matter because all he or anyone has to do is follow the scriptures and he believes God's law states clearly what is right and wrong. The whole blood issue he claims is in the bible, though I've never heard of it being in there and he says it states clearly that it is God's law that you do not taint your body with anyone else blood. I have not looked for this law in my bible yet, but I have a feeling it is just in "their" bible. Why then, if it is SUCH an important law, would it never be touched on in other religions, even in movies like the Passion of the Christ or other religious works I've read and such, to name a few resources that have been used to get out important issues such as the 10 Commandments and other "laws". If the media is such a huge venue for spreading the word, why don't non-witness religions speak of it? I'm sure I can guess why.

    So I don't really think there is anything I can do to help him other than pray for him. I have asked God to wake him up and plant the seed of truth inside him. I have been praying on many related issues a lot this last week and have been amazed at the speed at which an answer has been given to me. Maybe I cannot ever help him in person. I doubt I will ever see or hear from him again. But I can pray for him and for his deliverance and hope somehow that a miracle will occur and he can live his life away from this sad cult.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    The Truth is not part of our life, it is our life. Everything else revolves around it."

    (Our Kingdom Ministry, December, 1998, p.3)

  • willyloman
    willyloman

    File this under "life's lessons learned" in the "love is blind" folder:

    I knew me not being a Witness was a bit of an issue for him, but...
  • Sassy
    Sassy

    Can I ask how you guys met? Since you live long distance, I am curious as to if it was over the internet. I'm not against it, (I've actually met some awesome people that way), however, it is a means that some people use to meet people when they are lonely and the long distances can give a false security that things are safe in the beginning. One may think they can end it at any time. But, once you get to know each other, phone calls, chats and the live in person meetings, one or both may begin to have deep feelings. But what if one person never meant to? What if they just wanted to fill a lonely time. You see, he knew from the beginning that if you were not a JW. Very few non JWs feel like they do about the blood issue. This is a flimsy excuse for breaking it off with you.

    My guess is that you also freaked him out with the literature on the religion being a cult. That is a huge red flag to the elders and if they knew that you were showing him those things, they would definately condemn him for dating you. Also, even though they don't disfellowship one for marrying out of the religion, they do still treat them as one who has sinned. They will read him scriptures on not marrying outside the faith. There is no way they will approve of him marrying a NON JW and if he is telling you that, he is lieing to you.

  • AngelofEventide
    AngelofEventide

    He did say that the elders/faith do not condone marrying outside the faith. He said they told them (perhaps they were the ones lying to him to try to get him to stay) that he would not be excommunicated, but like I said earlier, would have to start all over again and work his way up standing wise in the faith.

    As to how we met, we met through a dating service. I had been spending a lot of time in the state he lives in (I have several friends in that state), trying to get a job up there, as I have had long term goals in trying to move there long before I met him. I joined the service for his region/state since I figured I would be up there soon and there was no sense in starting a relationship with somone in the state I was living in, since I planned on moving from to his state. We saw each others' profiles and went from there. I realize we were both not exactly prudent and I realize that now. I don't need to be chastized. I'm simply at this point trying to help out another fellow human being and now that I know the truth, that doesn't mean I care about him any less. I still love him, that is not going to go away over night. Yes, we won't be together, but I still have the desire to awaken him to the truth, be it behind the scenes through prayer, or some way else. I just don't know how that is yet.

  • GreenDragon
    GreenDragon

    Hi AngelOfEventide

    I am glad you do not wish to become a Jehovah Witness. Always remember this, none of JW are properly baptised because they are baptised in the name of the father, the son and the active force; they don't partake in the Lord's Evening meal; and they don't believe in Jesus bodily resurrection.

    The freedom to remarry thing, he did mention that. He went to the elders and asked them what their views were on marrying a non-witness. They said that they would not prefer it, but that I would be welcome to attend with him and I would not be judged.

    The elders he spoke to will not judge you but the other witnesses will judge you.

    Yes, do pray for him. I will pray for you also and hope that you will find someone better.

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    Sounds like, deep down, this guy wants out of the organization reeeeeally bad... he just has a lot of feelings of guilt programmed into him. This is why he is kicking in to "Super JW" mode and being an ass... he is trying to proect his mind from all the doubts and feelings that he is experiencing.

    So long as he is in this mode, you cannot help him. His world has to crumble around him before he will be free. He has to hit rock-bottom before he will be able to admit to himself that he thinks that the organization is full of crap.

  • AngelofEventide
    AngelofEventide

    Elsewhere,

    His life is falling apart around him. A couple of examples. His marriage has been for crap for that last 6 or more years. She left him to have at least an emotional affair with a man in jail - in jail for conspiracy to murder his wife. My ex is livid and feels totally betrayed by her. When they went to the first proceeding for the divorce, the judge put a restraining order against her from seeing this guy until the youngest child turns 18, which is 15 years from now. While my ex is relieved about this, his ego is still crushed over her wanting to be with him in the first place and that fact that the person she turned out being is like 180 degrees different than the person he married. Some of the stories I have heard and the picture evidence (the photos he used in court to back up his stories), were totally unreal and I don't blame him for wanting to be with someone else. #2, he is on the verge of losing his house, since he was laid off two months ago with a bunch of other employees and she is not helping to pay the mortgage. #3, she had tried to turn his children against him through I'm sure the uses of guilt and fear and it is only recently that the kids admitted this to him and now have turned back towards him in love. #4, he has now pushed away the one person in his life who has loved him unconditionally through all of this, who has been his rock, his love, his strength, his purpose for getting through all this, the woman who, regardless of what others think or say here, he had planned on spending the rest of his life with and who I know he loved - me. His love for me was not false or rebounded and I think that is another reason why he is feeling so tortured, because he did/does love me deeply and yet he is getting pressure and/or is starting to see the light and is having a hard time accepting. All I can do at this point is pray fervently for his healing and that God's will be done.

    Elsewhere, in your experience, when they start to weaken like this, is that is what in fact is happening, do you feel that they can be helped, be it by me or someone else? Is it more of a sign that they are ready to leave, despite fighting the guilt?

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    One of two things will happen:

    1. He will finally admit to himself that he does not believe the teachings of the WTS and enter a spiritual crisis. Some self-destructive behavior may come with this. In the long run he will have to rebuild his spiritual self from scratch. If he is sucessful in this he will be a far better man than he could ever imagine himself being.
    2. He will reprogram himself with a whole new personality... you won't even recognize him. This new "personality" will be die-hard JW and will NEVER leave the fold.
  • DevonMcBride
    DevonMcBride

    Hi Angel and welcome.

    Reading your post reminded me of a similar situation. I was friends with a JW who had been studying off and on for years. He was a terrific friend with a great personality until he got baptised. Right after that his wonderful personality turned sour and bitter. He never accused me of any wrongdoing and never said anything cruel to me, but he would talk about others in a bad way and accused one woman of "being Satan herself" because she wasn't very nice to him. With no explanation he stopped communication. Wouldn't return phone calls or responde to letters.

    Devon

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