Science still doesn't have the answers on how life first appeared

by EndofMysteries 69 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  OnTheWayOut

  I have to believe that it would be quite an advanced class that teaches abiogenesis (living things coming from non-living things) whereas Biology 101 teaches the basics, fundamental concepts which might help one understand biogenesis (not abiogenesis) or how living things reproduce living things.

  Abiogenesis is theory (but so are gravity and electricity) and one must go into such studies with the idea of really learning.  Anyone who hopes that such studies will show them that "life clearly and easily spontaneously happened" is probably closed-minded and sure that "God did it" so they will be disappointed.  
  
  Although not a scientist, I understand that it wasn't easy for life to begin.  
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  Island Man

  In biology class, when talking about plants, going over how fruit trees make fruit sweet to attract animals to eat it so it spreads it's seeds, etc.  There is some type of intelligence in that.

  Your statement is also what is called an argument from ignorance or an argument from incredulity. Essentially you're saying that since you cannot comprehend how such a seamless symbiotic relationship between plants and animals can come about naturally without some intelligent intervention, then there really must be some intelligence behind it. But the mistake being made here is in assuming (subconsciously) that anything you cannot explain or comprehend naturally, must therefore not have a natural explanation.

  You are assuming, subconsciously, that the natural reality around you must be limited by your own ability to comprehend it and therefore if you can't comprehend it then it must not be natural. This is a common flaw in reasoning engaged in by humans. This type of reasoning is also seen in newly contacted peoples who have lived in isolated forested regions for thousands of years and are encountering modern technology for the first time. Because of being completely ignorant of the laws of physics behind modern technology they are unable to comprehend how such modern technologies as cell phones or cameras work and so they resort to reasoning that it must be magic and the people who wield them must be gods. Because you do not know and cannot comprehend how life originated naturally without intelligence does not mean it did not originate without intelligence - it only means that you do not know how it originated without intelligent.

  Always remember: natural reality is not limited by your ability to comprehend it naturally so that you should label that which you cannot naturally comprehend as being supernatural. If you do so, you'd be making the same mistake as those "primitive" peoples who, in their ignorance and inability to comprehend, label modern technology as magic.
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  Jonathan Drake

  @island man

  this doesnt really have a baring on the thread but I wanted to thank you for taking the time to type your posts. Having been raised a witness I'm very ignorant on the subject of evolution and I found your posts very informative, I appreciate them very much.
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  JuanTheMan

  I have learnt a lot about evolution and the origin of life (which are two different things) from this board.
  
  I would seriously recommend reading either The God Delusion or The Blind Watchmaker from Richard Dawkins to understand that something that apparently was "designed" could come just from evolution and natural selection, and to understand possible hypotheses as to how life came to be. The anthropomorphic principle states that since we are alive, and we can ask the question "how did we come here"?, that it is NOT impossible to have life arrive by chance, and it is NOT impossible to have that life turn into intelligent life.
  
  No one knows the "probability" of life arising spontaneously, but it is NOT such a high number to make it so improbable it goes into the "impossible" range.
  
  What if there are multiple universes, and it turns out that OUR universe had the "right" conditions for life?

  The reason why we still do not know how life arose spontaneously is that it is very hard to confirm the hypotheses. For evolution we have the fossil record and many other lines of evidence, for the origin of life we cannot confirm or deny the hypotheses. 
  
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  I wonder are athiests convinced life (on planet Earth and life as we know it) convinced that it all happened by chance?  Or are athiests just convinced the creator as described in religion is incorrect but believe our life may have had some intelligent life preceeding it?  ...
  

  Even if I did not believe in a creator as described in religion, based on everything so far, I'd say some type of other life was responsible for us.  It's like breaking down a building, if you see a building and with enough research it comes down to blueprints, but the blueprints, where did they come from?  

  It would be easier to believe an advanced life/civilization with scientists who mastered biology were able to create cells, code DNA to make any sort of biological life they wanted, features, etc.  They would have programmed it to adapt as well to environmental changes, evolution. 

  Infinite regress. If you point to a watch and say, "It had to have an intelligent creator." Then you point to it's human designer and say, "He had to have an intelligent creator." Then you must point to god and say, "He had to have an intelligent creator, too." Then of the creator of the creator of god, you have to say, "Well, she had to have an even more intelligent and powerful creator, too!" Etc.
  

  Or are you going to say that our material world is so complex that it must have a designer/creator. But God, of infinite power and wisdom has simply always existed? That huge mystery is somehow an acceptable explanation?
  

  When I studied biology, chemistry, and physics, it certainly did not give final answers to all the questions of the universe, but it did bring a lot of mysteries down to a level to grasp. All those mysteries of life, electricity, and radiowaves had clear explanations. Everything about God became more mysterious and illogical. For me, it wasn't a stretch to replace the unanswered questions about God's beginning with the unanswered questions about the beginnings of the universe and life. As JWs we were supposed to simply swallow "Jehovah has always existed." Now I replace it with, "There's a lot of things out there that we don't know. There's a lot of things about our history that we don't know. But those answers won't be coming from some suits in Brooklyn with an interpretation of a Bronze Age god."
  
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  That long post and I didn't get around to the conclusion...

  The Bible still doesn't have the answers on how life first appeared. "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." Is God alive or dead? If s/he's alive, how did that life appear? Invisible evolution from nothing?
  

  
  
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  DATA-DOG

  1) Science looks for evidence. Science has NEVER claimed to have all the answers. Otherwise, why would we need the scientific method?

  2) An "alien" race creating us would only tell OUR origin. What about our creators? Where did they come from and so forth and so on.
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  EndofMysteries

  So your explanation of how life began is that some life put it there?

  Let me explain it another way. Not how 'any' life began but how 'our' life began. Let's say we humans create a life, using computers, etc. The answer of how life began for THEM would be different then us.  So if life on this planet came from other life, it COULD have, it doesn't answer how THEIR life came to be, but it would answer how our life came to be. We would have no way of knowing how their life came to be without direct answers, interaction, study, etc of them. 
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  JimmyPage

  I think this is worth a read:

   http://www.salon.com/2015/01/03/god_is_on_the_ropes_the_brilliant_new_science_that_has_creationists_and_the_christian_right_terrified/
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  EndofMysteries

  My point is that if scientifically ALL possibilities must be looked at. Saying that if we were made from an alien race doesn't answer where life came from, the fact also stands that if we were made from an alien race, then there is no skipping past them to discover the origin of any and all life. If we made robots or created some life form, then they couldn't discover the origin of all life without knowing about us and our origins, etc.