by gone for good 84 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I dont think most JWS have the intelligence or educational background to comprehend that document and probably not most JWS elders.
Sorry just stating fact.
Too deep in legality.
Meaningful nevertheless.
Perhaps a complementary letter speaking in laymen terms that you are making the initiative to clearly depart this religious organization and thank the elders for their friendship and personal concern toward yourself in being a participating member.
Perhaps a complementary letter speaking in laymen terms that you are making the initiative to clearly depart this religious organization and thank the elders for their friendship and personal concern toward yourself in being a participating member.
Which is a DA letter. And that’s fine, but that’s all you need if you want to inform them at all.
Simon- thanx for input
We have exactly as much freedom as we are willing to exercise (in matters religious)
The quotes from Human Rights expressions from various nations makes clear that:
1. government won't establish any religion, nor support nor hinder those that arise spontaneously population.
2.government extends the right for citizens/others to establish, join, volunteer to, OR quit any religion anytime.
You and I have exactly the same rights to freedom of/from religion - that religions have to recruit and indoctrinate.
Nobody is going to court - not yet (not till the right time and circumstances exist - our Viola Desmond moment).
This document is not to stir up confrontation - quite the opposite
.The process that inspired this "Quitting Quietly" by this document accomplishes these useful goals:
a) Provides (privately kept) proof that you are already not a member - thus not under church authority.
b) assures that we have control of our own spiritual lives
c) Undermines the elders' authority- (nobody wants the job now) - wait til hundreds quit quietly and they don't know and look like a-holes trying to arrange meetings with non-members EMBARRASSING
d )Suggests a "'constitutional' reason for a nonJW spouse to support his/her childs' emancipation from religous nonsense - imagine a non-believer realizing their child is exposed to this level of contempt.
e) Another cause for honest reflection about Human Rights a subject never taught and never practiced by JWsElders may recognize themselves as enablers to a corporation that brings division and suffering to families where none need exist.
f) Self Awareness. As no religion is named, let's see who self-identifies with the hateful methods repudiated. The hypocrisies are marked with an asterisk - let's see who self-identifies with those.
g) Exposes bullies from conscientious elders - may lead to corporate change -nothing else has' maybe loads of embarrassingly explicit proclamations floating around inside the congos will?
This is just off the top of my tiny head - I invite inclusions to this list...
@gone for good:
How is your right to quit “at any time” being infringed? Seems to me you can quit at any time, for any reason.
by which time you have not been a JW for X amount of time ! ~ Phizzy
Thus that's followed with the announcement: "Phizzy is no longer one of JW's. "
Data-Dog -sorry for the sarcastic summary before, totally unbefitting, but still...Paula White..Copeland..
Anyway here is for USA
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AvOiTfXYvyqghQ_Y-ABGidw_oJJY?e=2bLNXy
Please offer your always thoughtful comments and share, share, share if you like.
GONE FOR GOOD:
If the purpose of this letter is to prevent a JW from being shunned by other JWs in the congregation, I do not believe it will work - regardless of what any JW or soon to be ex-JW says about their so-called status as a believer, non-believer or whatever.
Maybe in their files it will say you stated you were no longer a JW on such and such a date (for legal purposes), but this will not prevent you from being shunned.The plain fact is that nobody can force people to talk to them or associate with them. And we all know what they are like with shunning and judgmentalism - even with people active in the religion. If somebody were to submit a letter like this - they have no idea what’s being said about them and what it will be perceived to be in the JWs who hear about it.
If I submitted such a letter and afterwards were in a store - and my former JW friends ignore me when I say hello..if I ran after them waving the letter in my hand saying in a loud voice what it states..will that compel these JWs to change their attitude towards me?? I doubt it.
We have exactly as much freedom as we are willing to exercise (in matters religious)
No, you have as much freedom as people are willing to give you or you are willing to kill people for.
The quotes from Human Rights expressions from various nations makes clear that:
These aren't worth the paper they are written on. The countries who control the human-rights council also torture and kill. it's a PR game and nothing more. No one is riding in on a white horse to fight for you.
2.government extends the right for citizens/others to establish, join, volunteer to, OR quit any religion anytime.
And no one is preventing you from quitting.
Nobody is going to court - not yet (not till the right time and circumstances exist - our Viola Desmond moment).
No one is going to court because no one has a legal case. Those who have tried have wasted their money (bad council, willing to take their money). What law do you believe has been broken or needs to be written?
This document is not to stir up confrontation - quite the opposite
IMO all it does it wave a flag that you are a threat to them. I think if your intention is to walk away without having relationships affected, you have a better chance if you just fade / quit without being "an opposer".
a) Provides (privately kept) proof that you are already not a member - thus not under church authority.
Meaningless, you are only a member if you keep showing up and if you think having a document that you write to yourself means anything to anyone, especially legally, you are in for a shock if you ever go to court.
b) assures that we have control of our own spiritual lives
Meaningless, you have that anyway
c) Undermines the elders' authority- (nobody wants the job now) - wait til hundreds quit quietly and they don't know and look like a-holes trying to arrange meetings with non-members EMBARRASSING
No, it reinforces that you answer to them because you are accepting their power over you. How do they 'not know' you quit if you send them an "I quite" letter? Isn't that the point of it? Or are you supposed to not put a stamp on?
d )Suggests a "'constitutional' reason for a nonJW spouse to support his/her childs' emancipation from religous nonsense - imagine a non-believer realizing their child is exposed to this level of contempt.
Putting air quotes around it is as useful as this is going to get. Imagine a non-believer giving a damn about some looney religion anymore than they care when they watch TLC programmes about the Amish shunning people? I remember the marches after those shows ... not.
e) Another cause for honest reflection about Human Rights a subject never taught and never practiced by JWsElders may recognize themselves as enablers to a corporation that brings division and suffering to families where none need exist.
Human rights are an illusion or a political prop.
f) Self Awareness. As no religion is named, let's see who self-identifies with the hateful methods repudiated. The hypocrisies are marked with an asterisk - let's see who self-identifies with those.
Uh?
g) Exposes bullies from conscientious elders - may lead to corporate change -nothing else has' maybe loads of embarrassingly explicit proclamations floating around inside the congos will?
How does a private letter sent to the "bullies" expose anything exactly?
The problem I have with these "hey, fill-in and send this DA letter to protect your rights and leave easily!" is that it sends a wrong and possibly damaging message to people. Sometimes it may be done for the best of intentions, but sometimes it feels like it's using other people as pawns in someones own battle for revenge against the WTS. It could do them real harm, turning what would have been a relatively simple and pain free process of simply stopping attendance into a family breakup.
Jeff- good to hear fom you-
you don't send it- you sign it, date it and keep it safe!
You are no longer an affiliate of any church since that date - why? because you stated so in a document.
You have exactly as much legal right to repudiate church membership as they have to claim you as a (volunteer) member. Religion is a wholly voluntary interest.
Churches ecclesiastic authority does not apply to non-members.You are now a non-member and you have written proof.
You can continue your fade if that's your style but when the hounders become unbearable -show a copy of your emancipation and it's date, and carry on with your life as you please -visit the hall, your family whatever...
...show a copy of your emancipation and it's date, and carry on with your life as you please -visit the hall, your family whatever...
Good lord. And I suppose this is the end-game here. You have this document so it means they can’t shun you. It means you family must accept you. It does not. They will announce your DA, they will shun you, so will your family. You will sue, and quickly find out that the judge will wipe his/her/zer/hir/zem/zee ass with it.
Congrats! You’ve left. Now, you could have just left without the drama.
