This would result in the Elders discreetly circulating the "memo" (verbally) that you are no longer one of JW's
Says who? Is there any precedent for this? Or wishful thinking?
QUITTING QUIETLY here is the Canadian version of the document
by gone for good 84 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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neat blue dog
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MeanMrMustard
@DoC: Exactly. I think 99% of elders would just think it’s a DA letter, quietly fill out the paperwork, and make the announcement.
The other 1% would ask the person about the purpose of the letter, and then based on the given answer would just fill out the DA paperwork and make the announcement.
Should the title of the thread be: “How to submit a very technical DA letter”?
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Phizzy
This is the idea of the Document , as stated in an earlier Post by GFG :
" This proclamation is signed and retained well before a PIMO or fader hits the elders radar.
It is not a letter of DA, nor a letter to the elders, it is a persons' private exercise of their Human Rights.-
freedom of conscience and religion.
Because it's dated and the rights are already claimed, there is no need for elders interference- the date on the document pre-empt their authority over ones privacy and affairs."
The point is, that as you are just an ordinary member of the Public, how can they take any measures against you ? I think this needs to be backed up, when you are forced to present it, with a letter from your Lawyer saying that you will Sue the individual Elders involved if any action is taken, or public Statement made. But, you don't present it until THEY force your hand, by which time you have not been a JW for X amount of time !
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road to nowhere
The flaw is the elders are above the law. Just ask them. They figure you signed away rights at baptism. I suspect a couple people I know went the lawyer present request as they are not active and the elders will not mention them or drop in doing door work.
We can't all move and disappear which would work
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MeanMrMustard
@Phizzy:
Ok, so the strategy is to print off this letter, fill it all out, sign it, and then... put it in a drawer somewhere? Then live your life, stop going to meetings, maybe throw in a holiday celebration, and if the elders come around, BOOM! You spring this on them and say, “I filled this out a year ago, before I stopped meetings. Ergo, checkmate!”
This is the strategy? They are gonna DA you the very next week.
If you want to threaten them with a lawsuit, individually, go ahead. That might work if they don’t want to deal with it and the WT won’t help with the legal defense. But, to be clear, it’s the lawsuit threats that would stop them, and the time/expenses that would come with it, not the letter.
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MeanMrMustard
The point is, that as you are just an ordinary member of the Public, how can they take any measures against you ?
You are still on the list of baptized members, that’s how. And you are on that list because you agreed to be a part of the group, governed by the group rules regarding internal group matters. Now if you want to exercise your right to freedom of religion and association, and exit that group, they will allow that to happen without any fight or threat.
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Simon
The problem with the document is that it relies on an interpretation of someone not speaking to you being equivalent to "torture".
If you believe the government is going to make that ruling, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Because if not speaking to you is torture, what is it when a policeman pushes you? Murder? It just doesn't fit in with how a society functions.
Look at actual crimes and how those are dealt with and the often pitifully weak consequences for actual wrong-doing.
All these "rights" documents are to make you feel you have something you don't really have - freedom. Because your rights depend entirely on the good-will of the government and if they decide that your rights are less important than something they want, guess what? Your rights were imaginary all along.
You only have to look at the likes of China torturing people and Apple knowingly using child labor to realize that all these UN "charters" and "rights" are just to keep people quiet and imagine they have something. The reality is there are no "rights" police who are going to protect you, they are more likely to stomp on your face and laugh at the rights you think you have.
I think people who want to leave should just stop going, without making an issue of it. If they see you as a threat then they are more likely to try to take action against you and prevent people talking to you. Otherwise it's more of a don't ask / don't tell situation. A lot depends on your local elders and what zealot busy-bodies you have in your hall.
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gone for good
Senor Mustard-
DON'T SEND IT TO ELDERS !!
Your are free the minute you declare yourself so.
You don't HAVE elders anymore!
F--K ELDERS.
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MeanMrMustard
@gone for good:
Right - you can just stop going. Never look back. You are free when you choose to be. You have the choice. Why do you need a letter for that? I have a feeling you are trying to out-lawyer the Pharisees here. If you want out, get out.
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JeffT
There is a fundamental flaw in all of these discussions about civil rights declarations etc: they cut both ways. Yes, you have the right to practice your religion as you see fit. So do the elders.
I'm with Simon, if you want to stop being a JW just stop. My wife and I wrote a DA letter about six months after we quit going to the hall. We said we'd sue them if they slandered us. We sent all kinds of documents outlining what we thought was wrong with the organization.
If I had it to do over again I'd just tell them I joined voluntarily and I was leaving voluntarily. Or maybe not say anything at all and let them figure it out.