Does anyone know of this guy, or agree with his statements on racial differences in IQ?

by Sugar Shane 104 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  I don't know whether Rushton's work is correct or incorrect. But he's just one guy - the US army has for years being collecting IQ scores and finding the mean score for each group of people. None of you, not Sugar Shane nor OrphanCrow, can link to an IQ study that's done correctly and that shows all groups having the same mean IQ ... because they don't.

  Think about it: some groups of humans left Africa, and thus split off from the people who stayed behind, tens of thousands of years ago at least.

  It would be strange if mean IQs between different groups stayed the same.
  

  While the African groups lived in tropical or subtropical climates, the wanderers into Eurasia had to survive very cold winters. There was a need to design and make winter clothes - something the Africans didn't need. It would have taken people with higher IQs to design and make decent clothing. Sure the Africans had the possibility to have high IQs to make layers of clothing but there was no 'need' because they didn't need extra clothing. They could wander around naked or just wearing a genital covering. But the Eurasians needed to make and wear clothes. Nature selected for higher IQs. There was a massive change of environment for the migrants out of Africa, and nature selected for slightly higher mean IQs. There was no change of environment for the Africans. There were different pressures on different groups of people.

  "Life finds a way." - Dr Malcolm, Jurassic Park.
  

  I've put this rather clumsily but I'm sure you get what I'm trying to say.
  
• 

  Simon

  Are you going to dispute that if I was raised in a poor uneducated family that spoke ebonics; educated in a poor school l system, that I might not understand the vocabulary used in a test? Are you going to say this will have no effect on my test scores?

  I'm pretty sure you could still match shapes and things. The tests are designed to test intelligence, not education.

  But yes, environment is one of the factors in how someone scores, just like genetics and nutrition are too. These were pointed out several pages back.

  Not sure what you're arguing - that everything is OK to be a factor in scores apart from race even though studies show that it is?
• 

  Simon

  Since you started this thread, I decided to move your comments about Stephan Molyneux (SM from here on out) to this thread...

  Great breakdown MeanMrMustard. I'm thinking I should edit the forum software so I can give you more than one 'like' because it deserves it for the work going through the claims and debunking them in such a clear fashion.

  If cutting off abusive of dysfunctional family members is all that's needed for someone to be declared a cult, then it's a pretty diluted use of the term. Attacking or lebelling those who don't want to be victims is low beyond belief.
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  @Sugar Shane:

  I'm calling BS. You throw your OP quotes out, clearly posted from some other site, but you don't do any evaluation yourself. B-effing-S.

  Here are your quotes:

  “You cannot run a high IQ [white] society with low IQ [non-white] people…these [non-white] immigrants are going to fail...and they're not just going to fail a little, they are going to fail hard…they're not staying on welfare because they’re lazy...they’re doing what is economically the best option for them...you are importing a gene set that is incompatible with success in a free-market economy.”
  —YouTube video, The Death of Europe | European Migrant Crisis [removed link to video for clairity]

  I'm pretty sure he didn't say those bracketed words, or else they wouldn't be bracketed. They were inserted. Provide the timestamp so that I can go hear this in context.

  “The whole breeding arena of the species needs to be cleaned the fuck up!”
  —Podcast FDR2740, “Conformity and the Cult of ‘Friendship’,” [removed link to podcast for clairity]

  Provide a timestamp so that I can listen in context, or I will dismiss as BS. Look at the title of the podcast. There is a high probability he was talking about hyergamy and not race. Did you get these from the anti-FDR site? Please cite your source.

  “I don’t view humanity as a single species...”
  —Podcast FDR2768, “Collective Guilt for Fun and Profit”, [removed link to podcast for clairity]

  Please provide a timestamp so that I can listen in context. I can't trust this wasn't taken out of context.
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  @Simon:

  Thanks! I encourage anyone to watch the videos posted by Sugar Shane, go right ahead... I get a little irritated these days at the labeling without evidence.
• 

  recovering

  Not sure what you're arguing - that everything is OK to be a factor in scores apart from race even though studies show that it is?

  Simon in view of the most current research I think that IQ tests in general fail to measure intelligence fully. There are many other problems with the test besides cultural bias. Research now points to 3 separate components of intelligence and concludes that no single test can measure all 3.

  Here is a link to the full article if anyone cares to read

  https://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20121218/iq-test-really-measure-intelligence#1

  - Single tests that measure intelligence quotient, or IQ, may become a thing of the past.
  A new study of more than 100,000 participants suggests that there may be at least three distinct components of intelligence. So you could not give a single, unified score for all of them.
  Researchers' understanding of the complexities of the human brain has evolved, and so too has the notion of IQ, what it really means, and how it is most accurately captured.
  “There are multiple types of intelligence,” says researcher Adam Hampshire, PhD. He is a psychologist at the Brain and Mind Institute Natural Sciences Centre in London, Ontario, Canada. “It is time to move on to using a more comprehensive set of tests that can measure separate scores for each type of intelligence.
• 

  Sugar Shane

  Simon to Recovering—

  “I'm pretty sure you could still match shapes and things.”

  ...hmm

  Simon to me—

  “Thanks, so you accept that people are different. But can't accept that groups can be different?”

  🙄 Here we go again.

  Yes, I’ve agreed on earlier posts that there are cultural differences, that we are born into, that can create differences. These differences might include access to education, health habits, parenting styles...any number of things. I’ve never said otherwise.

  Key word: cultural.

  As for the education aspect, here’s an article worth reading about immigrants from Africa:

  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/view/articles/2018-01-12/africa-is-sending-us-its-best-and-brightest
  
• 

  Simon

  It's like trying to debate with a whackamole machine. You now just post a random article showing that educated people are ... educated?

  You are fixated on there being no difference between groups even though there has been shown to be a difference and all you can think of to "prove" it is finding things that show differences, for possibly other reasons as though that disproves the other.

  Just because you find a green frog doesn't mean that crows aren't still black.

  Anyway, you started this to try and discredit some facts by attacking and smearing a person. I don't think there's any point debating with you anymore as your motivation is clear ands it's not to have any meaningful discussion.
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  The brain is a physical thing - there's no ghost in the machine.

  If groups show differences in amount of melanin in the skin and % of fast-twitch muscles, then they can have different mean IQs.

  Yes, environment and nutrition are other factors but these other factors do not negate the genetic factor.

  I think someone posted an article showing that mean IQ for African-Americans has increased in the last few decades. Perhaps access to Western education is a factor. I wonder whether mean IQ among sub-Saharan black people in Africa has increased, and, if it has, is there a similar increase to the African-American increase?
• 

  redvip2000

  I'm perfectly ok with different groups of people having different mean IQs.

  As we all should be, because it's true. Humans are not all the same. Anytime a particular group breeds apart from another group it develops differences. Human races developed because pockets of humans evolved differently in different areas of the world, and of course there will be differences between them, which includes intelligence.

  Besides, this is not a matter of opinion, because there is evidence of this. And so what? We shouldn't expect everybody to be the same, only to have the same opportunities.