Patriot Act ABUSE reported by FoxNews (page 2)

Patriot Act ABUSE reported by FoxNews

stillajwexelder

Yerusalyim - -I think the law is basically good -- and yes you are right --all laws can get mis-used

The problem with the PA is that it was written and passed in knee jerk hurried fashion under the cloak of fear. Unlike many laws that are abused from time to time the Patriot act has the potential to be abused to an extreme.

You don't write laws that trample on the constitution and say.... it's all right the judge will catch it later, he'll make it right.

Yeru .your right all laws are abused from time to time by those who are charged with enforcing them......but generally those laws as written are not so obviously contrary to civil liberties.

The government no longer has to show evidence that the subjects of search orders are an "agent of a foreign power," a requirement that previously protected Americans against abuse of this authority.

The FBI does not even have to show a reasonable suspicion that the records are related to criminal activity, much less the requirement for "probable cause" that is listed in the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution. All the government needs to do is make the broad assertion that the request is related to an ongoing terrorism or foreign intelligence investigation.

Yeru said,

explain to me again why this is so bad....seems to me that yes...they were able to go around a grand jury...but still had to have the permission of a judge.

Judicial oversight of these new powers is essentially non-existent. The government must only certify to a judge - with no need for evidence or proof - that such a search meets the statute's broad criteria, and the judge does not even have the authority to reject the application

As this law is written there are simply not enough in the way of checks and balances or due process, that is why facets of this law were brought on the house and senate floor for years before 9/11 and never even close to passing. But after 9/11 fear and doubt ruled the day.

Yerusalim,

I for one feel safer knowing that under the current law we could access the computer of Zacharias Mousoui but before 9-11 we couldn't. I'm not terribly torn up that the law is being used to investigate a strip club owner's finances. I trust the judicial oversight and I trust that this report to congress every six months will result in the law not being severely abused.

You have a point it is not all bad, but our laws were not the problem with regard to what happened on 9/11. We had plenty of intelligence that could have prevented 9/11 as has been documented. The problem was what was done with that intelligence.

I trust the judicial oversight and I trust that this report to congress every six months will result in the law not being severely abused.

You have an awful lot of trust bro. Remember that this law lives on no matter who is in the white house and no matter who has the majority in the house and Senate.

Alow me to put this into context.... How would you feel about the PA if Hillary were president and Bill were Attny General? There just aren't enough checks and ballances to prevent serious abuses that could put innocents into federal prisons.

With this law, a person or organization forced to turn over records is prohibited from disclosing the search to anyone. As a result of this gag order, the subjects of surveillance never even find out that their personal records have been examined by the government. That undercuts an important check and balance on this power: the ability of individuals to challenge illegitimate searches.

Again...what's the big problem here? The strip club owner shouldn't be investigated

I dont' think your seeing the big picture.....this is only the beginning.

Well, like I said before...all laws have been abused. I trust the congressional oversight six month review thingy

With this law, a person or organization forced to turn over records is prohibited from disclosing the search to anyone. As a result of this gag order, the subjects of surveillance never even find out that their personal records have been examined by the government. That undercuts an important check and balance on this power: the ability of individuals to challenge illegitimate searches.

THat's one of the great things about this law....it allows for observing and finding others in the conspiracy if there is one. I think it's GREAT that the ones surveilled don't know...and apparently the gag order ain't working so well if we know about this Strip Club owner. What gets me is some little librarian thinking she is protecting the world of free speech by refusing to turn over library records...Geesh....that's essentially a public record anyhow.

I'm not convinced anything wrong has happened in the case of the strip club owner...no one has made that case for me yet.

Patriot Act ABUSE reported by FoxNews

stillajwexelder

lastcall

Yerusalyim

lastcall

Yerusalyim

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