If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT! (page 5)

slimboyfat

The WTS is a former publishing house that is currently selling its assets to survive. That can’t last forever. Plus lawsuits, plus growth in poor countries and decline in rich countries, and so on... it is in a far worse position than other churches.

And as a matter of fact the Catholic Apostolic Church collapsed despite being rich because of its end time doctrine. It still has assets but no members.

It is simply a non-sequitur to say that because JWs haven’t collapsed in the past therefore they won’t collapse in the future. Or that because it had the resources to survive in 1925 that it will have the resources to survive the current crisis. These are bad logical errors.

Diogenesister

Average publisher figures definitely in decline already in the USA, UK, Australia/NZ, Canada and much of Europe, if you ask me. That is why they are not publishing them.

If there we're investigations into handling of abuse allegations in the UK and USA- similar to the Royal Commision - I think that could lead to considerable numbers leaving, similar to 1975.

Otherwise it's the inevitable slow decline faced by so many minority Christian denominations that will happen over the next century, I'm guessing.

_Morpheus

The inevitable slow decline i can certainly get behind. Thats hell and gone different from “they have already collapsed” (slim has said that on more than one occasion).

Slim, again your lying to yourself and your audience. The main source of income wasnt books. Its jw’s. Jw’s bought books to keep up with jw theology. Hw’s still are the source of wt income. They are simplt finding new ways to fleece their flock. The books were just a tangible trading item to make jw’s feel better about the fleecing.

Vidiot

As I've said before, there's more than one kind of exodus.

As far as I'm concerned, we are the exodus.

sparky1

"Let the facts speak for themselves."-Sparky1 a month ago

"Sparky, facts never speak for themselves."-slimboyfat a month ago

"The collapse deniers can continue for a while with their denials. But time and facts (bold mine) are not on their side."-slimboyfat 5 hours ago

"The relevant facts (bold mine) are that religions decline and collapse all the time...and all the evidence indicates that JWs are set to follow." slimboyfat an hour ago

It appears to me that slimboyfat thinks that facts cannot speak for themselves, unless of course they are interpreted by him in order to support his personal schema in regards to the demise of Jehovah's Witnesses. Perhaps his 'blind spots' help support his own confirmation bias?

_Morpheus

Oh sparky.. you have to start slim quote list those are priceless. I would do it but i have my hands full keeping the gloom and doom thread list

slimboyfat

Facts don't speak for themselves. That's why I assemble them and deploy them in a pleasing and compelling fashion.

JWs are in the process of collapse. Whether this will involve sudden dramatic events or a more gradual unwinding I don't know. But it is difficult for me to understand how anyone can't look at the current position of Watchtower and not see that they are experiencing an existential crsis. They don't close dozens of branches, end the yearbook, abolish the magazines in their traditional format, fire tens of thousands of employees, publicly beg for money on their channel, downsize headquarters, sell off assets to keep afloat, and much more besides,.. just for the fun of it.

Can they work a way out of the crisis? I guess it's possible. But it doesn't seem likely. They relied on book sales in the past. Now they are living off sales of their property assets. What when that dries up?

There are so many respects in which JWs are in a worse position than other churches financially, organisationally, policy and teachings. They are almost primed for collapse by the unique combination of severe challenges they are facing.

_Morpheus

They relied on book sales in the past. Now they are living off sales of their property assets. What when that dries up?

Lies lies and lies, oh slim one. They are living off donations as they have done for the last 20 years.

steve2

Decline is evident in the West, my home country is an example: There were more active JWs in New Zealand in 2011 than five years later, 2017 - the kind of pattern is unheard of in NZ in the post-World War two era in which peak numbers of JWs were almost always surpassed by average numbers within two years.

That does not constitute "collapse" - a loaded word if ever there was one! But decline is evident.

Moreover, has anyone else noticed that when ex-JW activists "invade" kingdom hall meetings (usually in the States and Canada) there are lots of empty rows?

OrphanCrow

slim: And as a matter of fact the Catholic Apostolic Church collapsed despite being rich because of its end time doctrine. It still has assets but no members.

Ah. And here we have a clue.

So, Slim, your definition of "collapse" then, is simply "loss of all members"

Well, now don't I feel silly? Here I have been assuming that you have been using the vernacular definition of "collapse".

Is that a post-modern collapse that you are arguing for, then?

Can you share with us what this impeding (or maybe, already happened) "collapse" is going to look like?

If the WTS/org loses all members but still has assets, does that qualify as a postmodern collapse?

*pssst - the Catholic Apolstolic Church collapsed because they didn't build doctrine around the end times not coming. The WTS/org has done that. They do organizational planning for the future. There were no overlapping apostles in the CAC

If you're expecting a mass exodus anytime soon, FORGET ABOUT IT!

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