by TerryWalstrom 26 Replies latest watchtower bible
Papias sounds like a man with his own agenda, being a Bishop of the church in his time. He probably had much to do with the invention of the life and times of Jesus put into the Gospels as opposed to the mythical Jesus that Paul preached.
I do my own research too. It seems that Papias was trying to give credibility to Gospel writings. This suggests they needed that kind of help. I guess God never really had anything at all to do with these writings.
Great work, Terry. I enjoy reading your thought-provoking and well-written work.
I am a bit stunned to think that people, at least on this site (because people do their homework) would have not heard of Papias.
But quite a difference exists between the people from the Watchtower of my day and today, I have noticed. And maybe because I was a JW so long ago when we really had books and deep articles to study, I have to admit I remember discussing Papias and his particular historical significance as a Witness, multiple times...this is why I say it startles me to hear that JWs and those who recently left might not know of him.
Since leaving I even studied about the "oracle" or sayings source Papias mentioned. Believed to be the work of the apostle Matthew himself, it supposedly contained only the speeches or sayings of Jesus in the original Aramaic, inscribed in Hebrew characters. Some scholars believe this is the underlying source for what is often termed "Q," used by Luke and the person(s) who constructed the current version of Matthew. Others theorize that this source was translated into Greek and that the current narrative was constructed by Matthew's congregation in Syria or by his disciples, placing the oracles or sayings into the structure we know today, some calling the source M in this case.
Hearing that the Watchtower has now grown soft on in-depth research, it is good to find someone who brings these things to light for those among the current JW religion (or those who recently left it) with its "Watchtower-lite" theology.
This would be a scientic study about the Papias fragments in german, but not free available
__________
about peters "hermeneut"
Eusebius remarks that, “as is clear from his books, [Papias] was a man of very little intelligence.” He made this judgment for two reasons: first, Papias was a chiliast or millenialist, believing that “there will be a thousand years after the resurrection of the dead when the kingdom of Christ will be set up in a material form in this earth.” Eusebius blames Papias for the subsequent adoption of chiliasm among many other Christian writers, among them Irenaeus. Secondly, Papias seems to have lacked discrimination in passing along certain “fabulous accounts” as part of the oral tradition. http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/articles.cfm?id=640
"Oooooh..... Papias......"
What Papias confirms us is that the history of Jesus is a mess and full of myths.
opusdei 1972
For instance, Papias said that Matthew wrote in Hebrew language a collection of sayings. This seemed to be the Gospel used by Nazarenes and Hebionites, who were christians that rejected the divinity of Jesus, regarding him only as the Messiah. Nevertheless, Jerome, an "orthodox" church father at the end of the fourth century wrote that most christians believed that that Gospel used by these sects was the original one written by Matthew. And if you read Jerome's and Eusebius' quotations from that Gospel you will notice that many statements differ from that of the greek version of Matthew's Gospel. So it means that many christians of the fourth century were not convinced of the authenticity of greek version of the Matthew's Gospel that we currently have.
I thought that this is already an accepted fact anyway, namely that Matthew was written originally in aramaic or hebrew.
Theologian Pope Benedict mentioned for instance Papia's testimony for Matthew on 30th Aug, 2006
"Finally, it should be recalled that the tradition of the early church unanimously Matthew ascribes authorship of the first Gospel. This is already happening by Papias, who was Bishop of Hierapolis in Phrygia about the year 130. He writes: "Matthew has compiled the speeches in Hebrew; everyone interpreted them as best he could "(in Eusebius of Caesarea, Ecclesiastical History, III, 39). The historian Eusebius adds: "Matthew, who had first preached among the Hebrews, wrote when he wanted to go also to the other nations his gospel in his native language; because he sought whom he left to replace by Scripture what they lost with his departure "(ibid., III, 24).
We have the Gospel written by Matthew in Hebrew or Aramaic no longer, but in the Greek Gospel that we have, we as it were listening the compelling voice of the Matthew who, became the apostle so continues this saving mercy of God to proclaim. Let us listen to this message of St.. Matthew, we always think back about it, so that we learn to stand up and follow Jesus with determination.
[the text is on basis of goole translation and not edited perfectly]
Whether later redaction in greek or second took place, a second, third redaction, hat changed matthews theology and doesnt fit into his concepts and whether new concepts were later added are interesting field of research.
This is an interesting addition to our discussion. . .
http://ehrmanblog.org/the-jewish-emphases-of-matthew-for-members/
