Memory - How it works (page 3)

Lady Lee

sorry double post

A good therapist will understand these differences

Panda

Mizpah, you said that a child of 6 is very impressionable...

You bet, especially when she's getting DELETED by her 19 yr old brother.

Big Tex

But there still remains a possibility that I was influenced by the many tales told in our family of that Sunday.

Possible yes, but by this standard then, how can we trust ANY memory? How can you be sure any memory you have is accurate?

LL

Interesting about traumatic memory versus typical memory. I think one thing that needs to be factored in as well is where does dissociation comes in? I don't mean being MPD or anything like, but rather that state in trauma where your mind freezes and you just don't think or feel anything for a little bit.

I remember one of my therapists described it by using something that happened to her. She was riding in the back of a pickup truck when she was a teenager when the truck swerved suddenly to avoid a car and hit an apple tree. She was unhurt but it was several minutes later when she realized she was holding an apple. During the accident she had grabbed an apple that flew by, but she didn't realize she had done that, and still held the apple until several minutes later.

I think the same thing applies sometimes during a trauma. We go away mentally, dissociate, and don't fully register the event.

Lady Lee

I think the same thing applies sometimes during a trauma. We go away mentally, dissociate, and don't fully register the event.

Exactly BT

Dissociation is normal We all do it. Daydreaming is a form of hypnosis. Getting so involved in a TV program that you don't hear someone call you is a normal form of dissociation. We do it all the time and don't think twice about it.

Children who are being abused do it too. And just like a child doesn't hear a parent calling the abused child won't remember what happened during the abuse. There is a way to access those types of memories but it is unethical. You would have to repeat the trauma - certainly not an option.

Sometimes one part of the memory can trigger another part or occasionally the whole thing as in a flasshback where the person relives the past trauma. They will lose touch with time and feel like they are right back in the trauma.

It is frightening for the victim and for anyone who is around, especially if you don't know what is happening.

Since memory is mood dependant when we feel sad it is easier to recall other sad times. But then when we are sad it is also harder to remember happy times. The same goes for the other emotions. fear, anxiety, joy. And once caught in an emotion it takes us a lot to get out of it. We most often will find it hard to "think" our way out of an emotional state.

Big Tex

There is a way to access those types of memories but it is unethical

Interesting. One of my therapists mentioned trying sodium amitol (sp) as a way to recover memories I could not access. However the proviso was that I had to check into a psychiatric hospital and be supervised (read: tied down) during the process as she said I would regress to the events and might be a danger to myself or others.

Naturally I didn't do it. There was no way I was going to have anyone tie me down. Have you heard of this type of treatment?

Lady Lee

Yes I've heard of it. Even seen a video of it.

My personal opinion is that it is unethical. I consider it abusive and could too closely resemble the memory they are trying to reach.

It is hard enough for people to remember. To restrain them, make them vulnerable is in my mind unethical even if the patient requests it. A therapist's job is to do no harm. I can't see how this would do no harm.

Big Tex

Yeah, that was during my "data" period when I was obsessed with finding out what "really" happened. I was really tempted. I probably would have done it if it hadn't been for the restraints. I even asked various doctors if they would prescribe it. I found one, but unfortunately he was a D.O. and couldn't prescribe it since it was XXX and only an M.D. could.

I'm curious now though (no I'm not going to do it), did it really work? I mean was that patient able to access legitmate memories?

Looking back though, I agree it would have been harmful. I would not have suggested it if I had been a therapist as it is fraught with potential dangers.

Lady Lee

well the thing is whatever was remembered - how would you know how real they were unless there was some validation?

From what I saw it unnecessarily traumatized the person.

I have gone through abreactions with people. No one has ever tried to hurt themself during it. They may think about it after but not during. While they are remembering they are trying to survive.

It puts you back to the past - right in the middle of it with no way to be in control.

When I have done abreations with people they stay in control. I help them do that. Controling it is part of the recovery. THIS time you get to be in control. And once they know what happened they can reframe it or change it or put it in a box. The point is always that this time they are in control. Tying a person down sort of defeats that.

And BT I suspect that if a memory is brought out when a person is not ready for it a couple of things might happen

They will go full force into being overwhelmed ans go into a shock mode.

or

they will forget it again because they aren't ready.

So what would be the point of doing that to yourself or a therapist helping someone do that.

I think both therapists and clients need to respect what the mind is saying - it isn't time yet. It was blocked for a reason. And somewhere somehow the mind knows that and protects you - sometimes from your own insatiable need to know.

Your mind has done a great job of protecting you from these things so far. Listen to it. Respect it and work WITH it.

Big Tex

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days now. Where do body memories fit in this equation?

When I was in therapy, if I got bogged down on data issues (what happened, who was there, etc.) at the expense of some pretty big emotions, my jaw would ache and get very tight. It seemed to be tied into repressed anger I was feeling at what I was remembering.

Once my back went out completely. The middle part of my back was knotted and hurt. It was so tight, I couldn't bend over. When I went to the doctor, he remarked at how unusual I presented. I was bedridden and couldn't go to work. A couple of days later, I had a flashback. An adult (my father?) had their hand in the small of my back, pushing me down very hard in an effort to hold me down while they were assualting me.

After I had this memory, my back pain vanished. Literally one minute it was there and the next it wasn't.

I started calling these sort of things, body memories. Is that the correct terminology? Have you encountered anything similar? Where does this fit in the discussion of how memory works?

Lady Lee

BT that is exactly what it is called - body memories.

We now know that the body is capable of physically manifesting a symptom that is connected to memories.

I have seen it many times and once the memory is retrieved and the connections made the symptom goes away. It seems the body has a way of holding the memories. I'm not sure if the mechanism has been researched or is fully understood but it has been well documented. I suspect it might be related to kenesis - the way our body remembers to do something - like ride a bike

Very often people will get body memories a few days or a week or two before the memory comes.

It would be helpful to take extra care of oneself during this time - eating well, getting a good sleep at night (or as good as possible) and slowing down a bit

Memory - How it works

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