by yxl1 13 Replies latest watchtower bible
After spending my lunch break chatting with some Born again christians who were street witnessing in my area, they suggested I read this book. They said it would answer all the criticisms I highlighted in the bible. Has anyone read it? Can you recommend it? I dont want to waste my hard earned on some pro-christian fluff.
Thanks guys
In any potential challenge like you propose, the only way to find out is to find out!
I.e., research the various claims. When you do this thoroughly, you'll find that proponents of various forms of creationism almost invariably descend to lying about their intellectual opponents. They seem to think that such lying will validate their beliefs. But their basic textbook, the Bible, says something rather different:
Are you defending God by means of lies and dishonest arguments? You should be impartial witnesses, but will you slant your testimony in his favor? Will you argue God’s case for him? Be careful that he doesn’t find out what you are doing! Or do you think you can fool him as easily as you fool people? No, you will be in serious trouble with him if even in your hearts you slant your testimony in his favor. Doesn’t his majesty strike terror into your heart? Does not your fear of him seize you? Your statements have about as much value as ashes. Your defense is as fragile as a clay pot. (Job 13:7-12; New Living Translation)
How many Christians live by the above words? I'll bet that not one in a thousand could honestly say, "I don't defend God by means of dishonest arguments." Most are forced to say, "I believe because that's what mammy and pappy believe." So how does one reconcile the benign form of Christianity found in most Western countries with the fanatical and murderous form found throughout history?
Main point is: don't get so involved in Trinity debates and such unless you're a pretty strong anti-Bible-believer; you may be as sorry as the day you joined the JWs.
AlanF
The Book New Evidence that Demands a Verdict deals primarily with evidence supporting traditional Biblical authorship and manuscript preservation. The Book does not deal much with creationism, nor the Trinity doctrine. (though it does deal somewhat with the deity of Jesus Christ.) The books gives some information on extra-biblical documents which support the existence of Jesus Christ. The book also provides a discussion and refutation of some arguments of the JEDP hypothesis. The book has been critized by J.P. Holding (a Christian appologist) for not being thorough enough in some areas. I have used it as a starting point for some references. The book generally gives a decent defense for the preservation of the Bible, as well as a response to some liberal arguments against the Bible.
Thanks for the headsup AlanF, and I agree with your post, and yes, I'm a "pretty strong anti-bible-believer"
Osarsif sites some links that use the Jesus Seminar as experts.... when I read that, I had to laugh. They hardly have the respect as experts.
I say take everyones opinion with a grain of salt. Read the book, research, and make up your own mind. Everyone has a bias based on their own experiences.
Here's a link to Amazon where you can sample 18 pages without putting out any moohla:
(be sure to scroll down where it reads "18 page sample")
The book is very good and in depth to read, something for an intellicual like yourself can appreciate while reading regardless if you agree with the book or not. It's worth the time and money to spend to read it.
Yiz
Many of these types of neo-modern Christian books can be interesting, sometimes thought-provoking ... and they can also decend into the cheap arguments that AlanF described ... they can be filled with lots of plausibilities and platitudes ... one such argument I hate is this:
"If you don't get an answer to your prayer, God is just saying no to you ... so what part of no do you not understand."
The whole argument is pointless, because silence from God really means just that and nothing more. In fact, after decades of silence from God, one can rightly challenge the very existence of God.
Looking at Hooberus remarks about the book you cite, it sounds more technical and likely more interesting facts are contained in it ... but one thing that all the western Bible supporters fail to note is that the Bible used in the West is based on the rules set forth by the Roman Catholic Church as to what constitutes a canonical work vs an uninspired work. As a result, a majority of western Christians, especially the fundamentalists who worship the King James translation, are grossly ignorant of Bible history and the source and care-taker of their own Bible ... Rome. This is just as true of the Watchtower and their New World translation.
I think the best thing would be to read the book you cite, and also read critical information regarding the history of the Bible. After doing so you will likely end up with more questions than answers ... but one thing for sure, you will find that the Bible is a work of very ancient nomadic tribes people ... and while much of its content is inspiring, and good, much is clearly not inspired of God, and in fact the Bible, in a number of places, is a testament against God ... that is, if God were behind the Bible.
Jim W.
I'm at work, so please excuse the butchering I'll be doing on this quote.
"God is so powerful, he's proven he doesn't even need to exist in order to save us." - author unknown at the moment
I liked the book "Saving the Bible from Fundamentalists." At a cult seminar, another guy was *really* encouraging me to turn back to the bible. I mentioned that book to him, he stalled and then quietly said "Well, he's not a reall bible believer - more of a rebel."
Such a world of books to read - all kinds of information that we were never - ever! - allowed to read as Jehovah's Witnesses!
waiting
I've read some of the first one "ETDAV" as we have it.
Josh, like Lee Strobel author of "The case for Christ" (which you might also wish to check out) was setting out to disprove Christianity when he started investigating (prompted probably by annoying born agains, who he wanted to sock it to.)
It's quite technical, but I think he really does his research, and it is not about creationism, it's about Jesus Christ.
I certainly would recommend you read it and draw your own conclusions.
I understand why you are anti-biblical. I would be too I believe if I had been in a false religion who used the Bible to control and frighten.
Myxomatosis
