Why do Americans have to pay so much for College???

by RubaDub 62 Replies latest jw friends

  • RULES & REGULATIONS
    RULES & REGULATIONS
    competent individuals seek a higher education in an attempt to make their labor more valuable for the previously mentioned employers seeking competent educated employees.

    Let me see if I get this right:

    a competent individual + higher education = employers seeking competent, educated employees

    a competent individual = employers seeking only competent employees


  • hybridous
    hybridous

    I think he's saying that

    competence without college is >

    college without competence

    Bear in mind, all of these high-paying professions still require specialized training, and you'd likely need to demonstrate immediate competence to even start on-the-job training.

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    @hybridous:

    Exactly. Employers want competence. Don’t blame them (which was the argument) for increased college prices. It’s not their fault.

  • RubaDub
    RubaDub

    Employers want competence. Don’t blame them (which was the argument) for increased college prices. It’s not their fault.

    MeanMrMustard ....

    I think Human Resource (HR) Managers want to protect their butts when hiring. If they hire a person with less than the "perceived educational standards" for the position and the person is not up to expectations, the HR person is the one who has the most skin to lose.

    If an HR Manager hires a "qualified" person for the position and the person does not work out, it is typically not the fault of the HR Manager.

    Rub a Dub


  • hybridous
    hybridous

    I think Human Resource (HR) Managers want to protect their butts when hiring.

    I think there's a lot of merit to this...^^^

    Nevertheless, after having sit through literally several dozens of group interviews over the past 2 years, I am still convinced that the best practice/policy is to simply

    ...hire the BEST AVAILABLE CANDIDATE

    regardless of whether they have the (perceived) ideal academic credentials, or not.

    Every time we let someone's degree win them a job, it has been a bad choice. Meanwhile, better employees have slipped thru our fingers.

    The degree is just the cover charge to get you into the interview...

  • Simon
    Simon

    It's bait and switch.

    Having a degree was valuable - it set you apart, it meant you had attained some expertise in an important or interesting field, it was a proxy to future employers that you could "do work stuff".

    So if having a degree was valuable, why not make everyone have one!

    Of course as often happens, the goals change - now the target is for everyone to have a degree, any degree, not one that necessarily means something like they did before.

    So a whole industry springs up to pump and dump degrees on people. Some look at the value of the specific degrees themselves and the potential future employment that they may help with, others just say "yay, degree in painting my nails!" or whatever useless crap it is.

    Lots of debt. Lots of "educators" (ha) getting well paid because of the debt that feeds it, but no real improvement in education - if anything people are dumber and less informed than ever before.

    Degrees are often no measure of competence depending on the field, they may even become a measure of stupidity - how can they not? You spent how much on that? Sorry, we're not hiring stupid.

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    Exactly. Google is now hiring more self-taught developers than developers with a degree.

    Since a degree is worth less than before, you might imagine the cost would fall with demand... except it’s not. Demand isn’t falling. Why not?

    Hint: The answer begins with “G” and ends with “overnment”.

  • just fine
    just fine

    I don’t want to pay for everyone’s college. As an example, I went to a State school for my undergraduate degree. I worked full time while I was in school and got some small scholarships, not a full ride. By working I paid for school and rent and living expenses. I got my degree with zero student loans and zero parental help.

    A coworker went to the same college. He didn’t work at all and took out student loans for his tuition/books/living expenses and ended up with $75k In student loan debt. He financed rent, beer and pizza, but got to party for 4 years. I don’t feel bad for him at all, he could have owed a lot less if he made better choices.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    The reason college is expensive in the US for some is because the government pays for large portions of the population to go there. 85-90% of college students have some form of assistance which means they pay very little to nothing out of pocket. Only if you make significant income (>$250k), do your children not qualify for government assistance.

    And for those in Europe and other places where we get 'free college' - full tuition out-of-pocket including room and board averages ~$50k/year at a government-backed guaranteed ~2% interest rates loan you're not obligated to pay back until 1 year after you finish college. And that's "high", $200k in debt to (if you choose well such as a STEM field), you typically can get a job starting between $50-100k with <18% effective income taxes. A few years later you should be making $100-250k/year. You should be able to pay back the loans with the tax savings alone vs your average European country.

    Off course, when the government gives free money, there is no limit to the cost because the government will always pay more, they'll just take it out of your taxes, so the tuition goes up. And with free money, people don't make good choices either, you can get a degree in just about anything for free and as long as you take one class, you don't have to pay back any debts either. So people get degrees in the liberal arts, rack up debts and don't have to be responsible, until they need to get a job and they realize the degree in lesbian dance theory does nothing for them, so now they're demanding the government forgive their debt and give them MORE free stuff and guarantee a job?

    I would suggest that public school for K-12 is not very useful either. The better option is to have school choice, vouchers for those that don't have the income to pay for private schools and reduce or eliminate the system of school taxes. In my area we pay upwards of $1B/year into the school system or ~$35k/student and we get dilapidated buildings, class sizes of ~20-30 and the school system has ~$500M in debt. You can pay a private tutor handsomely including supplies for every 4 children with that money.

    American college, as European college is still very cheap. Even at those 'exorbitant' tuition rates, the government also pays ~50% of operating costs for any privately owned University through research grants and other funding. So your college should really cost twice as much as it does today, or without government assistance, it would probably cost about as much as it does now, just with less administrative overhead.

  • RULES & REGULATIONS
    RULES & REGULATIONS

    Simon wrote:

    So if having a degree was valuable, why not make everyone have one!

    Exactly! Some fields required a degree, so Human Resources decided that they wanted to hire only employees with degrees.

    of course as often happens, the goals change - now the target is for everyone to have a degree, any degree, not one that necessarily means something like they did before.

    Exactly true! My daughter is in Human Resources and tells me that she is told to shred applicants resumes with no college degrees.

    So a whole industry springs up to pump and resumes that show up degrees on people. Some look at the value of the specific degrees themselves and the potential future employment that they may help with, others just say "yay, degree in painting my nails!" or whatever useless crap it is.

    Yes! Colleges become factories. Their only business is pumping out degrees. The more degrees you pump out, the more money the college makes. The whole school wins. Raises for all staff.

    Lots of debt. Lots of "educators" (ha) getting well paid because of the debt that feeds it, but no real improvement in education - if anything people are dumber and less informed than ever before.

    Colleges do teach, but what you get out of it or how competent you will be, does not matter to them. Get them in class and pump them out for new students tomorrow! You're in Debt? Too bad!

    Degrees are often no measure of competence depending on the field, they may even become a measure of stupidity - how can they not? You spent how much on that? Sorry, we're not hiring stupid.

    Yes! A degree is a just a piece of paper that shows you passed required classes. Colleges don't measure students on how competent they will be in their fields. Unless you came out as a Lawyer, Doctor, Engineer or some specialized field, you will be no more competent in your field as someone else. It just shows that you completed studies!

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