Texas Windshield Murder Trial Begins (page 18)

wednesday

yes Realist,

i am suggesting that if the law was uniform here, and criminals knew they could not "get away with murder" that either they serve quite a bit of time, or CP for their crime, it would have an impact on crime.

SheilaM

Wed: Maybe in Austria there isn't the crap like here

Big Tex

human beings have no truly free will.

Forgive me Realist, I have not read through this entire thread, but this statement piqued my curiousity. Is it your belief that we are no more than sentient animals, acting on impulse and instinct? If so, (and that's presuming that is what you mean) then doesn't that abrogate rational thought, logic and reason?

By all rights then all abused children should grow up to pass that abuse on and yet the majority do not. If we have no truly free will and are nothing more than biological robots, I would suppose that the vast majority would abuse the next generation. By all rights, I should be a pedophile. I should be out raping little boys wherever I find them. And yet I choose not to.

Just so you know where I am coming from, I happen to believe that we are a product of genetics, as well as our surroundings. Our choices are based in large part of the strengths and weaknesses of our genes as well as our life experiences. We can choose to live however we want, but those choices are greatly influenced. But ultimately we ourselves must bear the responsibility for our choices, whether they be wise or poor. Our lives are the sum total of our choices.

Just my thought.

Realist

wednesday,

hmmmm do you have any numbers that would back up this assumption? the crime statistics seem to indicate rather the opposite conclusion.

also severre mental cases like child molesters cannot be deterred by any punishment. its like a drug addict who will always take drugs no matter what the consequences are.

Big Tex,

yes free will is a fascinating topic! and somewhat frustrating

free will and the possibility to sin would require a from the body independant spirit - a soul that directs our decisions. such a thing does not exist according to all scientific findings in the past 200 years.

hence we have to conclude that all matter in this universe is directed by only the 3 (or if you want 4) basic physical laws. atoms, molecules and ions behave solely according to these laws.

therefore our brain, that is our neurons consist of molecules and ions which are solely guided by these physical laws as well. since there is no spirit directing these molecules all particles that we consist of move and interact due to the physcial/chemical laws. we make descicions based on the interaction of these particles - similar to a computer who works accoring to the program it just executes. neither we nor the computer have a way of actively changing the program.

nevertheless we have the impression that free will exists. it is a perfect illusion. only if you think deeply why you just made a certain decision will you realize that everything is depending on the settings in your head.

Is it your belief that we are no more than sentient animals, acting on impulse and instinct? If so, (and that's presuming that is what you mean) then doesn't that abrogate rational thought, logic and reason?

what separates us from higher primates like chimps and bonobos is a higher mental capacity. we are able to make more logical and far reaching conclusion and to understand more complex problems. our neuronal networs like those of all lifeforms are designed in a way to integrate internal and external imputs and to make useful desicions based on that. we are just better in doing so than animals. the further you go down the evolutionary tree the more primitive the brains get. if you look for instance at insects you can already see very clearly that they are nothing but biorobots. humans are just vastly more complex but function based on the same concepts.

By all rights then all abused children should grow up to pass that abuse on and yet the majority do not. If we have no truly free will and are nothing more than biological robots, I would suppose that the vast majority would abuse the next generation. By all rights, I should be a pedophile. I should be out raping little boys wherever I find them. And yet I choose not to.

no because your genetic makeup is different from that of your parents. and the outside effects on your development differed from that of your father. therefore you did not chose the same path as your parents as i am not chosing the one of my parents.

Just so you know where I am coming from, I happen to believe that we are a product of genetics, as well as our surroundings. Our choices are based in large part of the strengths and weaknesses of our genes as well as our life experiences. We can choose to live however we want, but those choices are greatly influenced. But ultimately we ourselves must bear the responsibility for our choices, whether they be wise or poor. Our lives are the sum total of our choices.

your assumptions that we are the product of our genes and surroundings is 100% accurate. now you just have to make the last step and accept the inevidable consequence of this, namley that we have absolutely no free will - not a tiny little bit

Yerusalyim

SurRealist,

You got some wierd ideas about crime and punishment. The idea of our courts is not based on either punishment nor rehabilitation. Our criminal justices system is supposed to be based on just that...JUSTICE! Justice is served by this woman sitting in prison for the rest of her natural life because she took the life of another individual with callousness.

Death Penalty? Not in this case, and the way it's administered ain't so great, but I have no problem with this self centered wench sitting in her prison cell for the rest of her life.

Realist

yeru,

justice has not an end in itself. the sole point of the system should be to reduce overall suffering.

wednesday

i disagree Realist,

the sole purpose of the system is to protect the innocent from htose who will not or cannot obey the laws.

I have not got numbers for cp in all 50 states, b/c we have never had that happen.. It would be a good idea, criminals would know that they will not be coddled.

We do have choices, we are not just instinict, we have consciences, unlike animals.Just like we tell people who drink to excess"u have a choice, u are in control". Or people with MPD " u are in control, not one of your alters" Non one has to kill or molest, they have choices.

Realist

wednesday,

the sole purpose of the system is to protect the innocent from htose who will not or cannot obey the laws.

cannot is the right way to put it.

to protect the innocent largely goes hand inhand with reducing over all suffering. nevertheless the suffering of the criminal cannot be completely neglected or taken out of the equation.

I have not got numbers for cp in all 50 states, b/c we have never had that happen.. It would be a good idea, criminals would know that they will not be coddled.

so right now the criminal in texas thinks he will be coddled?

by the way...what do you think about this outragous case with the man who got life in prison for spitting at a police man? would you consider this one of the cases were the system worked or failed?

We do have choices, we are not just instinict, we have consciences, unlike animals.Just like we tell people who drink to excess"u have a choice, u are in control". Or people with MPD " u are in control, not one of your alters" Non one has to kill or molest, they have choices.

here you are mistaken. as i explained above we have no real control over our choices. we are guided by the biochemical processes in our brain not the other way around. that we have conscience (by the way just like chimps, bonobos and most likely dolphins and orcas) just allows us to put ourselfs into the equations.

whether a drinker has a chance to get sober or not depends on the settings in his brain. if he has very strong will (on set of neurons) he might be able to escape - if the addiction is too strong (another set of neurons) or his will is too weak than he cannot win.

again free will is just an illusion.

Yerusalyim

If free will is an illusion, no one is responsible for anything, so no one should be punished. No more need for jails, prisons, or laws period. The guy that rapes and murders 8 year olds, he can't help it, he has no choice in the matter, lets not lock him away. I like that.

Ron1968

I think she got the sentence she deserved. I don't think this was a death penalty case because she did not kill the guy on purpose. If it was premeditated, then it would be different. She was also on drugs which screwed her thinking up afterword.

Ron

Texas Windshield Murder Trial Begins

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