by Believer 133 Replies latest jw experiences
I could never understand believers becoming upset or getting offended by what they see or hear.
It baffles me, for If they are correct in their beliefs, all naysayers had better watch out.
Indeed, of all people who should NOT feel offended, I'd have thought it was those who had a strong, unwavering faith in the correctness and truth of their beliefs.
Getting offended has an air of lack of faith in one's own beliefs.
I have caught far to many men of the cloth lying. Two committed adultery. The JW "Elder" lied to me for a solid 5 years. And numerous others. One minister showed up at the hospital claimed he was my minister just to find out why I was in the hospital, that was when I lost my child - none of his damn business.
My church I was a member for 40 years never showed up when I had cancer.
My best girlfriend is the highest ranking Elder in her church and Ordained Minister she knows how I stand on God, religion and how spiritual I am and not once has she asked for an explanation.
It reminds me of the saying 'never talk about politics and religion'. Many wars are based on differences in religious belief.
I find it irritating when people want to 'pray' for me or insist dogmatically that there is a god etc, etc. I bet my non belief in any religion must make believers feel 'how could you' etc.
Is it a good thing to talk about the specifics about what and why we believe in or not about religion? I don't know, on both parts may it incite arguements?
I imagine the nitty gritty about many topics are not and should not be explicity disccussed. I remember on JWR a person describing explicitly childhood sexual abuse and it was very uncomfortable reading and unwarranted for many reasons.
Maybe I am wrong?
I don't think a lot of exjws are necessarily expecting to run into a lot of ribbing from fellow non believers concerning their continued belief in god. They join because they need help and understanding, which they get.
My aunt who is one of us still has feelings of spirituality of sorts. I totally respect that. I however, have no feelings of spiritualness. I did, but I felt a sudden, clearcut severance and abandonment. I really felt connected spiritually, and often had tearful heartfelt prayers. One time I recall being outside at night. I was looking up at the stars and wondering what was happening to me. I lost my composure and fell to my knees with tears of sorrow running down my cheeks. I Looked up at the starry sky and realized it was gone. I don't know how to describe it. It was an actual feeling of something cutting a cord and suddenly I felt totally cut off. I was an active and true blue JW at the time. Totally faithful to god. That's why I was so puzzled and shocked when I lost my seeming spiritual connection...
Wow, I really got into it there...Tangent city. LOL.
TB-
steve2 - exactly.
sweetgrass - it's a good model to never talk about politics/religion. Not the case on this ex-witness site all about JWs/religion. However, it's certainly good training as to what happens when discussed. We learn much from other's viewpoints. That's one thing about professionally charitable organizations -- no one asks and they aren't structured around supernatural woo.
Well perhaps this should be declared a non-believer forum or forum only for atheists. I myself will leave if it makes people feel better.
I am personally not insulted either way. Like I said before, there are fewer options for non-theists. I don't feel persecuted by such a choice of the group. As a Jew I am sure you know that what really counts as persecution has a different meaning for me than mere disagreement with my convictions on a forum.
This will not be the first time I've been turned away or told I am not welcome because I think the God of Abraham is real, and it likely won't be the last.
Whatever the choice of the group, I still won't claim your views are bad or stop supporting atheists and their rights if the need arises. I believe your convictions and stand are honorable and reasonable, even if I regret the attitude and actions some take in the name of such a noble use of the mind to be free.
DavidJay wrote:
Well perhaps this should be declared a non-believer forum or forum only for atheists. I myself will leave if it makes people feel better.
No, Jeepers!! No need to leave. I think we can all co-exist here. Who thinks this should be an atheists only forum? Or a believer only forum? I certainly don’t. But I am new here, so what do I know. That’s just my gut reaction.
I dont think anyone needs to leave, certainly not you David_Jay!
I think we either need to accept that
a) as a forum we are not capable of having conversations where there is some type of bridge between the two camps and just live with it
or
b) decide we really want (as a forum) to have those conversations and make the necessary adjustments to do so.
I love this place and have a wonderful time here and I am not an atheist at this point in time. I havent had enough fresh JW free air to know what I am yet. I am trying to figure that out.
David_Jay - Why would you leave -- I think there are many believers on board and many who aren't sure. That's what is so interesting and it's nice to have a Jew posting. I'm sure there are many who appreciate your posts and learning more about your religion.
Taking it to mean that this is a non-believer forum is just as wrong as imagining it should be a believer forum.
It's a discussion forum. It's meant to discuss things, not be an echo chamber.
Like discussions of anything else, if you are telling me something personal like what flavour ice-cream you like then I don't need proof. I'm willing to accept it because the implication if you are lying is nothing. If you make a claim about some science or political stats then I may ask for a reference and if you can't back up your comments I can feel that you are just making things up. Things matter more when I care if misinformation is being given out.
Why should discussion of religion suddenly get a fact-free get-out-of-jail pass?
Like anything else, you can say something is what you feel or believe but you can't just state things as facts and get pissy if people then question it.
So again, if you say "I choose to believe that there is a super-being who loves me" you'll get less push-back than if you say "there is absolutely a super-being that loves me".
But if you think you constantly need to tell everyone about your super-being super-friend who has a crush on you? Well, we may just think that you are an annoying idiot.
Find a balance, have a self-filter.
If you want an echo chamber where everyone agrees with your definition of god and shares your belief in him - go to church !!
