Why Are You Here? (page 10)

sparky1

Cofty is 100% correct on this point. If you are calling yourself a Christian you must accept the entire Bible 'lock stock and barrel'. The Bible cannot be treated like a Smorgasbord......pick out want you want and leave the rest.

In for a penny, in for a pound. If you don't accept the Bible in its entirety than you are not a 'true' Christian. You are some type of 'self- deluded', god intoxicated spiritualist that has created a 'hybrid' belief system trying to attach itself to so-called Christianity.

Believer

At the mouth of two atheists! So it must be true. Sorry Liberator, I was wrong.

TheLiberator

John: 4. 22. "You worship that which you don't know. We worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews."

Romans: 3:1,2 "Then what advantage does the Jew have? Or what is the profit of circumcision? Much in every way! Because first of all, they were entrusted with the oracles of God."

Concerning primarily the Old Testament:

2 Timothy: 3. 16. Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness,

Giordano

Believer. I do believe you have touched a nerve getting us to think about the issues you have raised. So this may be part of the resistance you have experienced. Eric Hopper in the True Believer said “The opposite of the religious fanatic is not the fanatical atheist but the gentle cynic who cares not whether there is a god or not.”

A lot of us no longer care if there is a god or not.

My advice, which is worth what you are paying for it, is to place your trust in a few humanistic scriptures and concepts, the kind of things that are loving and embracing and move away from the mumbo jumbo. Use the Society as an example...... everything written and published since 1925 is gone, everything believed until 1975 is gone. All the teachings of Fred Franz are gone. Everything they thought they believed in 1990 is slipping away. Why follow that path? No religion has the truth no individual has the absolute truth maybe if one is lucky a slice of truth.

There is a saying that perfect is the enemy of good. The Society doesn't understand that, never has, which is why good is not respected as in you can never be good enough.

The way you respond to posters in a humanistic way is a rare thing. Maybe you'll be one of those special bridges that can help people get past their hurt and fear. Some will need to hold on to their basic most cherished beliefs but also need to be able to come out of the shadow of the WTBTS.

The goal now for most of us is to live a productive life, to do as much good as we can and leave this world a little better off for our being here.

The people who come here are being shown a variety of different paths, ideas and concepts they can select from so they can continue to move forward at their own pace.

jwundubbed

I'm wondering why believers remain members of this forum which is clearly hostile to believers. As one member said, nonbelievers pounce on any semblance of belief like piranhas on prey. As former JWs we should have had our fill of judgmental know-it-alls, but here we are. So why? What is the attraction?

The assumption that you make here is that everyone comes here to debate the validity of their beliefs. Personally, I haven't yet found this forum to be hostile at all. My beliefs aren't like others. I believe in the possibility of a supreme being as much as I believe in the possibility that there is no god. I am full of belief on both accounts equally. That isn't in any way a normal way of thinking. But I don't need to debate my beliefs for the simple reason that they are my beliefs. They aren't facts and they can't be proven and yet they hold the same validity for me that facts and proof does. Why would I need to prove my beliefs are valid to anyone else when they are perfectly valid to me? I don't. And I don't come to this or any other social forum in order to debate or validate my beliefs. I don't have that need.

The attraction for me is community. Something that I lost when I left the cult was a support system and a community. I am not love-bombed and automatically accepted on the condition that I agree with everyone else here and I prefer it that way. I have received a very nice welcome and an initial level of acceptance. From here I have to prove that I can be an acceptable member of this community, and this community has to prove to me that this is where I can belong and is a group that I can accept. I never got that as a JW and I find it very satisfactory.

One of the first things I learned when I left the cult is that JWs are not the only people who are self-righteous, judgmental know-it-alls. Those kinds of people are everywhere. I even find myself being that kind of person from time to time. It really takes a concerted effort not to be that kind of person. I now have a belief that this is a part of human nature. We all want to belong somewhere. Change is scary. People who don't fit our mold is scary. So we try to get them to conform to our way. And this is a mentality that you find everywhere, in all social groups even though not everyone behaves this way. To assume that some community of people won't have judgmental know-it-alls is kind of naive. Just because you left a cult or any group of people it doesn't mean that you suddenly turn into a new person. That takes time. And it takes effort. So, give people a break. Confront them on their behavior when it is bad or unnecessary or wrong or whatever. But don't place general blame on an entire community because they didn't meet your unreasonable expectations of them. That isn't any more right then what you feel they are doing to you... or others.

What do you get out of this forum that makes it worth putting up with the attacks from self proclaimed animals?

I haven't been attacked by anyone. But I also love a good debate, so I might not see people as attacking me. I might see people stating their opinions and arguing a point vehemently and passionately. Not only am I okay with that, but I think a good debate is healthy. I haven't seen any personal attacks yet, so I wouldn't be likely to feel attacked unless someone is attacking me on a personal level. But I am also very confident in my beliefs. I have no problem with someone questioning my beliefs thanks to the JW cult. Seriously. I always wondered how strong a persons's faith could be if bad association could spoil it. I a person could be stumbled in strong faith just by talking to someone. If your faith is that weak then it isn't really faith. My faith is strong. And if someone can prove me wrong... and really prove me wrong, not just state an opinion that they are as confident in as I am in my belief, then all the better. I mean, if you can give me proof then you have every right to convert me to your way of thinking. But belief doesn't usually have proof, that is why it is called belief and not fact.

Edited to remove unnecessary commentary.... can't get rid of the yellow box....

Believer

Another thing, Liberator. The idea that you must accept the whole Bible as the absolute truth or you’re not a Christian is a WT teaching. Folks who don’t even know what a Christian is! Paul didn’t teach that. He said the old law is obsolete and outdated. He chastised the Christians who tried to keep the law. He said your minds are blinded when you try to keep the law. (Somewhere in Corinthians where he talks about a veil.) Yeah, you DO need the entire bible to untwist yourself from WT teachings. But once you untwist, you are FREE! Free to find God on your own terms and many believers here have done. Jesus freed his followers from burdensome rules and laws. He said just keep these two commandments (you know what they are) and you have fulfilled everything. None of the prophets were called the word of God. Only Jesus. Jesus’ teachings are superior to all of the words of Moses and the prophets. So if you believe Jesus is the word of God, then believe him! And be free!

TheLiberator

Believer, we are not talking about being under the law. Yes, we are free from that. But Paul would never say that he dismisses the account of the female bears killing those young people for mocking God's prophet, just because it does not "resonate" with him. It happened. God had spoken. It was righteous. Live with it. This is the God of Christ that I love. If what you have said has basis in all the scriptures, then I will listen. But I think the scriptures I have shared express the importance of all the scriptures. Christ believed it as the word of God. Why should I believe anyone else?

Believer

Ok, Liberator. As you wish. But if you ever want to have a conversation about the subject matter, we can PM and share scriptures. God bless.

kaik

I wonder about it as well, but entire my family is in the cult.

jhine

i am probably in the minority here as a never a JW , long time Anglican . l started to come here to learn more about the WT after doorstep conversations with JWs and the realisation that their beliefs are more to do with divide and control than anything else .

Jan

Why Are You Here?

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