by Bloody Hotdogs! 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I asked this question of a JW that called on me yesterday: "If the universe requires a creator, why doesn't God? If the universe must have a beginning, why doesn't God? And, how do you know?".
He claims to have an answer, but it must wait for next time he calls.
I'm hoping you guys can give me a heads-up as to what he will say. I've never had this conversation with a JW before.
Thanks!!
The answer he will come up with is, God is eternal, no begining or end.
But that just doesn´t give you a lead? remember Big Bang?
Bugbear
Religionists will make an answer out their own imagination, which doesn't have to have any viable evidence.
That's the thing about spiritualism it doesn't have any evidence except human imagination, which includes all gods or spirits imagined throughout human history.
It's basically the argument of turtles standing on turtles but when questioned, instead of the answer being "turtles all the way down" it's one super turtle, hovering on a fluffy cloud belief and wishful thinking.
He claims to have an answer, but it must wait for next time he calls
JW speak for "uh oh - I have no idea ... I need to go see what the WTS tells me to think about this>
He won't return. He'll ask the elders how to answer and they'll tell him that you obviously do not have the right heart attitude or you would not be asking such ridiculous questions. It's obvious to me that Jehovah has NOT chosen to reveal His Truth to you. They'll tell him to move on and find someone with the "right" heart condition.
Doc
I had a very similar conversation with a JW a few months ago. They said everything needed a creator and that creator was God. I said "So *everything* doesn't need a creator, you just said God didn't. Without any evidence, why couldn't I just as easily say that the universe was the thing that didn't need a creator instead of God?"
They said again that everything needs a creator and my response was "Well, no it doesn't. You personally just told me that literally everything needs a creator and then told me that wasn't true. If your god doesn't need one, then you can't claim everything does, and if it's possible to exist without needing a creator, then why can't that thing be the universe? Why is it your god? What evidence do you have that your god exists without having been created? And before you go to the Bible, I can show you 20 other religions that aren't Christian that claim the same about their god, why should I believe your religious claim over theirs? You've no more evidence than them."
They too promised to come back the next week and never did. I ran into them about a month later at a grocer and asked why they hadn't come back. They said they were looking into it.
Slackers.
I have a circular thought re universe expansion....if it is expanding..what is it expanding in?
Why does it have to be expanding into anything?
Discussions like that would be one good fun reason to resume the H2H work which I have not done in years, the peddling of wt literature, Preaching wt ideas, recruiting.
Everything needs a creator has the hangup in the word "thing" and when you enter the realm of the pre- BB condition there is no more thing, no moving through time, no more causality as we are prone to understand it .
Using Simon's illustration of the "turtles all the way down" it is an energy question; forces balanced :gravity vs centrifugal forces whose sum is not O but 2 that holds Earth in it's orbit that is 998 light seconds across. stabilized by the resonances in the solar system.
Why would "god" if there is one not need a creator? because causality is a function of the movement through time, and only things move through time, started ~13.8 Billion years ago Just imo.
He claims to have an answer, but it must wait for next time he calls.
Which is code for ,"I've gotta' run home and do some major research and/or ask the Elders".
