It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon 2566 Replies latest jw friends

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    For the record:

    There are two ways to make money self-publishing on Amazon. One is sale of physical books or electronic books. Amazon pays the author a royalty based on the price set by the author.

    Or readers subscribe to the Kindle Library, I believe it costs about $10/month. Amazon tracks all the pages read and pays a royalty based on that (a few cents per page.) I currently have five books on Amazon and hope to add #6 soon.

    Three of those have sold fairly well, the other two not so much.

    In total I've sold 1,397 physical books. I have a total of 882,921 library page reads.

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister
    Jeff He seriously needs an editor to take an axe to that monster.

    His ego is too fragile to listen to the recommendations of a professional editor. He'd become offended and go off on one.

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister
    Elmer Would Lloyd have been DFed same situation now? No if he went to that much effort at all the JD meetings he would not be DFed now.
    LmsAThe level of detail and the hoops he had to jump through doesn't match the crime of sexting.

    And bear in mind, this is with a father who is (by all accounts) an elder who wields considerable power. How likely is someone with that level of protection to get DF for one or even two incidents of sexting?

  • ElderBerry
    ElderBerry

    Sexting will not get you DFed unless you are unrepentant now.

    The seismic change is it doesn’t matter what the elders think, all that matters is what the sinner says.

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas

    Re: The need for an editor of TRA.

    There was an “editorial team” he named at the time. It consisted of Covert Fade, Mark O’Donnell and Kim O’Donnell(!). There were a couple others, but those were the names that stuck out.

    Nothing personal against the O’Donnells and CF, but what editorial qualifications do they have besides being able to comprehend English and being exJWs? Being sycophants of his at the time, it was unlikely they were going to ever give Lloyd the advice he desperately needed. I actually spoke to O’Donnell under a burner account and he was going on about how earth shattering Lloyd’s memoir was in the first draft.

    He seriously needs an editor to take an axe to that monster.

    Like a poorly written and directed movie, the book lacked any strategic pace and felt like it were three clumsy attempts at books that were then blended together at the last minute. It was clear he began that project with a straight-up memoir in mind in the first few chapters, then pivoted to doctrinal rebuttals in the next few, then devoted the final chapters to more recent events in his life and within the organisation.

    Then, as the book had long since stagnated, he inexplicably starts relaying the personal stories that a couple of his followers related to him.

    If I were editing it, I would have told him to drop the explicit sexual details and keep that section brief and to the point, reduce the doctrinal rebuttals and attempt to cleverly weave them into his personal narrative instead of devoting chapters to it, drop the sanctimonious re-write of the letter to mum, the Christmas tree humping and the stories his followers wrote for him.

    Even then it would have still had been a fairly mediocre product. He’s a blogger, not a writer, and it shows.

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas

    I am probably not the best source on this, but my understanding is that sexting is in the grey area above masturbation/porn but well short of adultery. If he says it was a “series” of JCs, my money is on them getting one heavily sanitised version from him, and then a more comprehensive one from his wife. The follow-up ones were their attempts to beat the full truth out of him.

    Maybe a former elder can answer this for me, but wouldn’t they be obligated to meet with Dijana, especially since it had to do with infidelity?

    Based on how long of a process this was, it’s more to do with adultery than online flirtations.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Jeff his sales have plummeted since the scandal broke. Before that his book was often number one in the JW category and it was hovering around 10,000 sales rank overall on .com and .co.uk. That implies a few sales on each site a day, multiplied by 5 years (2017 to 2022). That’s without even considering the hype and bump in sales at the beginning and preorders and so on.

    Take a look at the number of reviews his book has got. You have sold 1,397 books (that’s pretty good by the way) can I ask how many reviews your books have got on Amazon? The point is that only a tiny percentage of buyers bother to leave a review on Amazon as you must know. LE’s book has nearly 600 reviews on Amazon. Do the math. The only ex-JW books that beat that (as far as I know) are Crisis of Conscience with over 800 reviews and Leaving the Witness by Amber Scorah with 900 reviews.

    A very rough estimate of 20,000 copies sold is reasonable. It might be more; I’d be surprised if it was much fewer.

  • Thisismein1972
    Thisismein1972

    He would have made quite a profit of his book. Remember he had a fundraiser to pay for the printing costs and the publishing cost, he even made a profit with these costs too.

  • DerekMoors
    DerekMoors
    A very rough estimate of 20,000 copies sold is reasonable. It might be more; I’d be surprised if it was much fewer.

    I have to disagree for a few reasons; while it's interesting that he's gotten 600 reviews, I think more readers of his book would be impelled to review it because they were more excited to see a book against Watchtower than, say, someone reading a random mystery novel. His followers are also more cult-like than you find with anyone else so they'll leave a good review if their lard and master tells them to.

    Bookstores don't sell self-published books as they don't work with individual authors but through a distributor. Distributors don't work with self-published authors as it's a nightmare trying to establish revenue sharing, returns, etc. Remember that dumb little book signing he did in London or wherever, no one showed up and he left a few with the store owner?

    So we can rule out a lot of members of the general public buying it. That leaves exJWs on social media, Hemant Mehta's audience (he wrote the foreword), random YouTube viewers, and anyone clicking on his website.

    Also, the size and price is prohibitive for a lot of people and there was a free PDF floating around for a time.

    So I'd say several thousand is a good estimate but highly doubt it even got to 10,000. Just my two cents of course.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    You are correct that there are some reasons to suspect that more buyers would have left reviews of his book than for other books. Even taking that into account 600 reviews is still a very high number of reviews and indicates a high number of sales.

    Crisis of Conscience is the most high profile ex-JW book ever, people have also been highly motivated to praise and promote that book, it has been around much longer than LE’s book, and yet it only has 35% or so more reviews than LE’s book on Amazon. (Plus another factor, for people who know Amazon well, is that CofC has been around since the beginning of Amazon, when writing reviews was much more common than it is now. By 2017 purchasers were less inclined to leave book reviews than they were in the early days.)

    Another factor is that LE’s reviews count has been artificially suppressed because he, or someone acting on his behalf, has succeeded in getting many negative reviews of his book removed from the site over the years. So the actual number of reviews left for his book is higher than the nearly 600 reviews that remain on the site.

    He has many more reviews of his book than other near competitors - Eric Wilson has 65 reviews for example. Don Cameron’s book, which was very popular at one time, has 100 reviews. Neil Gardner, a more interesting YouTuber, and probably much better writer than LE has 84 reviews.

    I doubt his sales are as low as 10,000 but I can’t prove you wrong. Even if that is the ballpark figure it’s still a phenomenally successful self-published book by any standard.

    Again, I’m not arguing it’s a good book. The parts I’ve seen are crap and people who think it’s any good are dumb in my opinion. But the idea LE needs to take lessons on writing a book that sells is for the birds. If the argument is that it’s a crap book despite its success then I’m on board with that. But I don’t think he cares about that.

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