by oncebitten 49 Replies latest jw friends
Paul's letters were written decades before the anonymous gospels were written.
Why did nobody tell the gospel author of the update?
So did that mean that jesus wasn't aware of the future update?
Still waiting for the independent and verified evidence that there was a miracle worker called jesus?
I'm just being sarcastic now ,fed up with the circular reasoning, that the bible proves the bible.
However, you dont need to think that way simply because we have a very early church father, Clement of Rome (30-100 AD) who wrote extensively. He knew Paul, Luke and Peter.
What we really have is tradition upon tradition, often contradictory and hundreds of years separated and motivated by the claim for apostolic succession.
The work called 1 Clement is anonymous, it's time of writing is largely assigned due to traditional dating of related writings. The author doesn't claim to have known Peter or Paul only saying they had died and went to heaven. They represent the start of a long listing of OT characters who died. It's pretty doctrinally neutral, apart from pretty stern warnings that women must be obedient. The oldest copy we have dates to the 11th century. It was regarded as canonical by many for centuries. 2nd Clement is a similarly anonymous work often dated to the same period, again because of tradition. Some of the later Church Fathers dismissed 2 Clement because they didn't like some of the content.
The author of 1 Clement included some mythology in his praise for creation:
1Clem 25:2
There is a bird, which is named the phoenix. This, being the only one of its kind, liveth for five hundred years; and when it hath now reached the time of its dissolution that it should die, it maketh for itself a coffin of frankincense and myrrh and the other spices, into the which in the fullness of time it entereth, and so it dieth.
1Clem 25:3
But, as the flesh rotteth, a certain worm is engendered, which is
nurtured from the moisture of the dead creature and putteth forth wings. Then, when it is grown lusty, it taketh up that coffin where are the bones of its parent, and carrying them journeyeth from the country of Arabia even unto Egypt, to the place called the City of the Sun;
1Clem 25:4
and in the daytime in the sight of all, flying to the altar of the
Sun, it layeth them thereupon; and this done, it setteth forth to
return.
1Clem 25:5
So the priests examine the registers of the times, and they find that it hath come when the five hundredth year is completed.
Actually, JWs have taught for many decades that Adam's sins could not be forgiven (nor could Eve's) since they sinned while they were in a perfect state. Furthermore, JWs believe that Jesus blood allows for forgiveness of sins. The friend that told the poster otherwise was incorrect.
However, JWs also teach that the wages of sin are death, and that the "slate " of sins is cleaned when one dies.
They also teach that the animal sacrifices offered did not actually exonerate anyone of sins - they merely foreshadowed the coming sacrifice of Jesus blood. They explain this during their annual observance of the Lord's Evening Meal (the Memorial). Some speakers have bungled it but the ones who follopw the outline seem to speak in unison.
Nevertheless, they still find ways to over-complicate each of these teachings, even when scripture seems to support their teaching. It is little wonder that many Rank & File JWs don't know what they believe.
A young rich man asked jesus what must I do to get everlasting life, jesus said to keep the commandments and sell his riches and give to the poor, off he went ,
That now middle aged rich man meets Paul and asks him the same question but now is told that he must have faith in the blood of jesus to have everlasting life.
Is jesus right and Paul's wrong or is Paul right and jesus wrong or are they both wrong or right?
Touchofgrey, First of all, Who says they were the same person?
Secondly, the rich young ruler claimed RIGHTEOUSNESS. He kept ALL of the commands.. He didnt need Jesus. He wasnt as sinner. Right? So, Jesus clearly showed him that he is a sinner because his wealth was more important than obeying the commands he just claimed he honored. We cant save ourselves by good works! He that exalts himself will be humbled.
Religion's today each have their own interpretation of the bible and so believe slightly different things, so are all right or all wrong?
Ok Look. I didnt come to this forum to have atheists troll me with question after question. I have answered what I wanted to answer, and I dont get replies that correspond, but I get yet another stupid irrelevant question. You arent looking for help. nothing better to do?
I am not here for that. Go find an atheist debate board.
I am here because this board is about sharing with XJWs. Be gone trolls. I will not be replying. Youre welcome.
Peacefulpete, Back then they swam in a sea mythology especially gentiles. So yeah i know about the phoenix as polycarp I believe also mentioned it. Be careful what you put in print!
ThomasMore,
Hello. I think they still teach that Adam wont be resurrected. While at the same time claiming Jesus died for his sin. I'm not 100% about that because... well, new light bulbs grow dim and flicker.
I guess my sister just really threw me because that's one I never heard before. She is a bottom line sort of person so that appears to be her take. What I need to do is get her to read her bible in context. i tried, but she said she didnt understand it. While the NWT is written not to be easily understood, that leaves her in a very dangerous place depending on WT lit.
I think you are correct in saying they overcomplicate, hence the confusion. However, that's putting it nicely. I dont see NICE when I listen to the GB. A child can understand the gospel
ThomasMore - “…they still find ways to over-complicate each of these teachings…”
Yup.
I blame most of their current problems on Ted Jaracz’s legacy…
…but that one’s all on Fred Franz.
“He that exalts himself will be humbled.”
What if someone humbles himself in the hopes of being exalted?
Or better yet, doesn’t want to be exalted, but has it imposed upon him anyway?
Or doesn’t believe he’s humble even if he is?
Or mistakenly exalts himself whilst being secretly humble?
Or simply exalts himself humbly?
Or humbles himself exaltedly?
😵💫
TonusOH - “…If anything, the JW version is a poorly-worded explanation that was probably borne out of their need to be contrary about even minor details. The Rutherford Effect, if you will.”
😎👍
