by searchfothetruth 46 Replies latest watchtower bible
I'm quite looking forward to it actually! I've had a lot bottled in for a long time, but I know I am kidding myself if I ecpect one word to enter their collective dimness. Thanks everyone.
Can you think of any specific lines of reason that I can use to entrap them.
Another way you can help me folks is to tell me what NOT to start talking about. I know certain subjects need a lot of time to discuss and I want to get as much into the few hours as I can. Thanks everyone!
Teenyduck,
Thanks for the advice but I have been building up to this for a while, even so, I didn't expect my mum to go running to them, especially after she has personally checked all of the articles herself and even wrote to the society. But I am not surprised either. The fact that I have had NO phone calls, visits from any member of the cong that I was associated with from a child ( I'm 32 now) is an indictment in itself don't you think?
There's been a lot of great material been posted on this site recently and I want to thank everyone for their research.
What I would like from you is any killer points that you think I can use with the Elders tomorrow (Friday 14th) because I want to give them as hard a time as I can.I have my dis-association letter ready to give them before they leave but I may aswell have some fun before they do.
instead giving your letter directly to the Cheese Cracker Men, why not send it to the WT legal Dept and to 3 or 4 Papers and 3 or 4 local churches telling them why you are leaving- in your letter to the paper outline the changing dogmas that have killed jw
1. transplant
2. alternative service
then throw in the 2 witness rule on child abuse-
the churches can be asked to share it with thier members and the papers with their readers
this you will make the wt legal dept have to contact the service dept who will have to contact the local congo and by that time --folks in the terrirtory will probably know about it before the elders do
i firmly believe that if you are going to turn in a DA letter, (which i normally would not recommend, just in case we might be able to sue wt one day) then HAVE SOME FUN
If you spend all that time composing a letter it is possible that only the 2 bro who you give it to may even read it
i know where other members of the body didn't even want to read SUCH AN APOSTATE LETTER
the 2 elders told them what it said and that was good enough for them
doing it your way - you risk ONLY 2 FOLKS EVERY READING YOUR LETTER
DOING IT MY WAY 100'S PERHAPS 1000'S WILL READ IT
so have so fun
Hi Search....
Since the memorial is coming up, what a great topic to show a current flip flop.
Kudos to whoever first posted this, (I will try and find)
Many are familiar with the countless flip flops and contradictions that can be found in the WT publications of the past (for numerous examples of this see http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com). However, in reading through the Jan 15 and Feb 15 WT study articles I believe I have found a "modern day" example of a WTS contradictory statement. It pertains to the status of the "other sheep" as sons of God.
__________
In the Watchtower of January 15, 2003 page 14, paragraph 22 under the heading "Maintain Faith in God's Word" it states:
"Jehovah is the Father of spirit-begotten Christians and of their companions with an earthly hope.(Romans 8:15) And faith in our heavenly Father never leads to disappointment."
___________To encourage the "other sheep" that having faith in God's word does not lead to disappointment, the statement is made that God is the "Father of the other sheep" and the scripture at Romans 8:15 is used to support this. Here is what Romans 8:15 says:
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out" "Abba", Father!The WT of Jan 15/03 p14 clearly states that God is the Father of both the "anointed" and the other sheep, citing the scripture in Romans 8:15 to support this. The natural conclusion to reach from this paragraph is that since God is their "Father", the other sheep would of course be "sons of God" as seen in Romans 8:15. The article makes no attempt to discourage this conclusion. However, when we compare this statement with the Feb 15/03 WT we see the exact opposite conclusion drawn from this same scripture.
___________
February 15, 2003 page 19, paragraph 6 under the heading "Attending as Respectful Observers" it states:
"Should those now doing good to the remnant of the 144,000 brothers of Christ partake of the Lord's Evening Meal? No. God has reserved that privilege for individuals he has anointed with holy spirit to be "joint heirs with Christ" (Romans 8:14-18)...Since they are not Jesus' joint heirs with a heavenly hope, they attend the Memorial as respectful observers."In paragraph 7 they go on to quote the same scripture in Romans 8:14,15 (regarding being God's sons) as applying ONLY to the anointed.____________
Since the WTS has long taught that the "other sheep" are not sons of God, is the suggestion that God is the Father of the other sheep (and they are therefore his sons) an error on the part of the WT from Jan 15/03? Or, is this an example of the Society creating ambiguity concerning one of their more distasteful doctrines - namely that we are not all God's sons, only 8,800 people on earth are?
It's no wonder JWs are confused about issues like this. First, they are given an article to study in January which makes them feel good about their relationship with God as their loving Father, and themselves presumably his sons. The next month the WTS lets the axe fall and tells the flock that they are most certainly NOT God's sons and how dare they think such a thing! Very sad.
Question: Can you rightfully call Jehovah your Father? can any witness? If an average witness (meaning not special class) were to insist they call Jehovah "father" would they have to be discliplined?
will
JT,
Thanks for that! excellent point. The two elders will probably not read it and as you say it limits ant impact.
I think i'll do what you say.
Thanks Willpower. Great points.
Here's one that's impossible for any JW to answer today. It proves that the F&DS doctrine is false.
Ask the elders if they would read a Bible passage and comment on it. Don't let on at first that you're going to be tackling the F&DS question, or they'll refuse to play along and make excuses. Have them first read Matthew 24:36-44 (NIV here):
"36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
Ask them exactly when "the Son of Man" will come. They'll answer that they don't know, since the event is yet future and is tied to the coming of "the great tribulation" and Armageddon. That's what you want to get them to admit -- that the "coming" is in the future. Therefore the setting of the passage is in the future. This has been Watchtower teaching for about 30 years. Next make a brief comment that verses 45-46 mention "the faithful slave", but you want them first to read Matthew 24:48-51:
"48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
According to present WTS teaching, the events described here are also in the future. Get the elders to admit this, too. You can look up the latest Watchtower comments in the WT-CDROM. Finally have them read the most fundamental passage that exists for JWs, Matthew 24:45-46:
"45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns."
Don't let the elders comment yet, but you immediately point out that it's obvious that the passages immediately before and after the above are yet in the future, so logically this passage must describe future events. Why then, does the Society teach that it had a fulfillment in 1919? They will not be able to answer. You pounce on this and state that this is proof that the leaders of the Watchtower were not "appointed over all Christ's belongings" in 1919, and therefore they are teaching a great falsehood, which makes them false teachers, and therefore -- by their own definition -- false prophets. It is grossly arrogant to take up for themselves a title like "faithful and discreet slave" when the Bible itself proves that this cannot be.
AlanF
"What I would like from you is any killer points that you think I can use" Well there are a lot of points that can be brought up. Failed prophecies. Changes-flip flops in their teachings. Claiming that Jesus was enthroned as KIng in 1914 when their is no proof of such an ocurance. Claiming to be Gods chosen org. when there is no proof at all. The fact that if God chose the WTS to be His org. in 1914, why aren't they still teaching the things they taught then? If they get their teachings from God, why do they keep changing them? Can't God tell them the truth the first time? The un-Christian way they treat their fellow man. The rules and regulations they enforce even tho those rules are NOT in the Bible. The fact that JWs MUST go door to door selling, distributing, placing worthless magazines in order to score points with God. Hoping that maybe, just maybe they sold enough magazines, attended just enough meetings, worshiped the WTS just right. that God just might, maybe, there's a slight chance, spare them at Armageddon. I could go on but, the main point that I would bring out is... Where is the proof that God chose the WTS as His orginization. In the Bible, any parson that God used had proof that He was using them. ie: miracles, prophecies that came true, teachings that didn't have to be changed when they were found to be wrong. WHERE IS THE PROOF GOD IS USING THE WTS??? neyank
AlanF
Simply fantastic. Thats what i'm looking for! Thanks.
Neyank
Thanks. Ive got all that info just waiting but what do you think would be the ultimate in stumper questions?
