George Bush most admirable male??!!

by back2dafront 48 Replies latest jw friends

  • Pork Chop
    Pork Chop

    Yep, one can always recognize the liberal wackos by their invective. They have nothing else. Intellectual bankruptcy reigns among the lot of them.

    I've underlined and highlighted the particularly relevant sections for the leftists. If you boys can't understand any of this I'll be happy to help you.

    The Electoral College has been a principal component in building the strongest and largest Republic in the world. We need only look to historical record as evidence of this fact. The Electoral College allows for the House of Representatives to determine a victor in the event a majority vote is not received. In the two elections where this occurred, the House made sound decisions. The Electoral College promotes cohesiveness in our Nation by encouraging the two-party system and quells fragile coalitions and the instability that is intrinsic to small factional groups. In addition, the Electoral College provides insurance against poor decisions and from foul play and political pressures. On the contrary, the Electoral College allows for concessions to the party in power, it eliminates any need to run up the vote and allows for a checks and balances system for the parties to keep each other in line. In conclusion, it is a foolhardy gambit to discard a stable, fair and proven system of election, which has served well for over two centuries, in favor of one that has been shown to be uneven, unreliable and susceptible to fraud. http://www.avagara.com/e_c/ec_directdanger.htm

    "The advantage of restricting otherwise-dislocated mass to a compartment within a given area is that distortions caused by that mass have a limited effect on the area outside the compartment. Consider this example: when a canoe springs a leak, the added, dislocated mass places sinking pressure on the canoe's total area. However, if the canoe is sectioned off into many compartments, each sealed on all sides, water from a single hull breach is restricted to the compartment in which the breach occurs. Now the effect on the canoe's total area is localized and limited to the compartment.

    In the Electoral College, these compartments are the discrete sets of electors sent from the states. This means that thirty million voters in a few large states, galvanized in favor of a presidential candidate whose campaign promises may threaten the livelihoods, property, and liberty of individuals in less populous states, can appoint for that candidate only a limited number of electors.

    As a practical example, suppose an extreme environmentalist promises the inhabitants of large cities and their suburbs to create more national parks, expand the definition of "protected wetland," and generally to prevent ranchers, loggers, farmers and "agribusiness" from humbling the noble wild. Legislation born of these promises must be enforced uniformly throughout the Union, but will have little direct impact on the Manhattanite who does not need to worry that his job, apartment, or automobile will be taken from him by a government agency representing the interests of trees and trout. To provide some equity to the residents of those states in which such threats to one's property and livelihood are an everyday reality, the Electoral College limits the capacity of densely-populated, distant regions to make a president for the entire nation." The Radical Capitalist

    "So then the question arises as to why any state would ever join the United States in the first place. The answer is in the Senate and Electoral College. A state with 1/100 of the population of the United States would actually have a voice greater than 1/100 of Congress. The two equal-power Senators are the ONLY way to encourage newcomers into joining the U.S. Similarly, the Electoral College which is framed exactly the same as the U.S. Congress gives that necessary extra voice to the small states." Politics @ Maitreg.com

    The Electoral College is a block, or weighed, voting system that is designed to give more power to the states with more votes, but allows for small states to swing an election, as happened in 1876. How Things Work

    Why Was the Electoral College Created?

    by Marc Schulman

    The Electoral College was created for two reasons. The first purpose was to create a buffer between population and the selection of a President. The second as part of the structure of the government that gave extra power to the smaller states.
    The first reason that the founders created the Electoral College is hard to understand today. The founding fathers were afraid of direct election to the Presidency. They feared a tyrant could manipulate public opinion and come to power. Hamilton wrote in the Federalist Papers:
    It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations. It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief.

    (See All of the Federalist 68)

    Hamilton and the other founders believed that the electors would be able to insure that only a qualified person becomes President. They believed that with the Electoral College no one would be able to manipulate the citizenry. It would act as check on an electorate that might be duped. Hamilton and the other founders did not trust the population to make the right choice. The founders also believed that the Electoral College had the advantage of being a group that met only once and thus could not be manipulated over time by foreigh governments or others.

    The electoral college is also part of compromises made at the convention to satisfy the small states. Under the system of the Electoral College each state had the same number of electoral votes as they have representative in Congress, thus no state could have less then 3. The result of this system is that in this election the state of Wyoming cast about 210,000 votes, and thus each elector represented 70,000 votes, while in California approximately 9,700,000 votes were cast for 54 votes, thus representing 179,000 votes per electorate. Obviously this creates an unfair advantage to voters in the small states whose votes actually count more then those people living in medium and large states. One aspect of the electoral system that is not mandated in the constitution is the fact that the winner takes all the votes in the state. Therefore it makes no difference if you win a state by 50.1% or by 80% of the vote you receive the same number of electoral votes. This can be a receipe for one individual to win some states by large pluralities and lose others by small number of votes, and thus this is an easy scenario for one candidate winning the popular vote while another winning the electoral vote. This winner take all methods used in picking electors has been decided by the states themselves. This trend took place over the course of the 19th century.

    While there are clear problems with the Electoral College and there are some advantages to it, changing it is very unlikely. It would take a constituitional amendment ratified by 3/4 of states to change the system. It is hard to imagine the smaller states agreeing.


    Long Live The Republic!

    Edited by - Pork Chop on 30 December 2002 19:34:52

    Edited by - Pork Chop on 30 December 2002 20:17:39

  • Pork Chop
    Pork Chop

    Isn't it interesting how the moronic mouths of Aztec and Reborn2002 have gone silent?

  • Aztec
    Aztec

    Hahaha Pork Chop I forgot all about this thread. Thanks for bringing it back up!

    I read your article and found it interesting although I still don't agree. I don't like the idea of the electoral college at all. Too much power in too few hands. And I still don't think it's a fair representation of the people's will. I'm not saying I wanted Al Gore in office cause I didn't even vote for him however he was the winner by popular vote and I think the people's will was ignored in this instance. I think George Bush has done a fine job of making Americans even less popular with the rest of the world. He's a very talented guy!

    Oh and before you go and call me a moron you might want to at least get my gender correct. You called me a boy and frankly I'm quite insulted.

    ~Aztec

  • Aztec
    Aztec

    Isn't it interesting how the mouths of the right wingers like pork chop have gone silent? Where'd ya go "the other white meat"?

    ~Aztec

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    The reason I did not respond to this thread sooner was because I had not been online.

    The facts speak for themselves.

    The most glaring fallacy in your propaganda-laden article is this:

    the Electoral College limits the capacity of densely-populated, distant regions to make a president for the entire nation." The Radical Capitalist

    Did you even read the articles I posted? Better yet, do you even understand how the electoral college works? The most densely populated states are given the most electoral college votes. As I demonstrated in a previous post a candidate need only win 11 states of 50 to win the election under the current electoral college system.

    How exactly is that granting power to the smaller states? LOL

    You truly are an idiot.

    Your propaganda further states:

    In addition, the Electoral College provides insurance against poor decisions and from foul play and political pressures.

    Your kidding right? Did you even read the articles I posted? Poor decisions? I suppose the populace as a whole is incapable of choosing for themselves. Political pressures? Why do you think candidates campaign in specific electoral college vote states? (i.e. California, Illinois, New York, Texas) Or how about disenfranchised voters in the sole state responsible for determining the national election?

    You have GOT to be kidding.

    Your quotes further ramble on:

    The Electoral College promotes cohesiveness in our Nation by encouraging the two-party system and quells fragile coalitions and the instability that is intrinsic to small factional groups.

    Allow me to rephrase this sentence.

    The Electoral College promotes cohesiveness eliminates the value of an individual citizen's vote in our Nation by encouraging forcefeeding the two-party system and stamps out the opportunity of choice by quelling fragile coalitions and the instability that is intrinsic to small factional groups.

    (the underlined statement is generalizing all candidates not Republican or Democrat, also deceptively insinuating all Independent, Reform, Green Party candidates etc. are somehow incapable)

    Are you sure you want to use this data as your credible source?

    Furthermore, another flaw in your logic and propaganda:

    The Electoral College allows for the House of Representatives to determine a victor in the event a majority vote is not received.

    Is this supposed to be a good thing?. Put the election in the hands of politicans notorious for voting along party lines, be it Democrat or Republican. This scenario has also not played out on over 100 years, as your own literature admits.

    Again the power is not given to the individual citizen. There is a word called "obsolete" I suggest you look it up. The Constitution is allowed Amendments to change with the times. At our current point in time, the electoral college is no longer practical.

    Also, conveniently I notice you failed to address ANY comments in my previous post.

    At this point I will conclude you are a blundering idiot who chooses to rabidly post propaganda when you have no clue what you are talking about, and you also fail to address pertinent issues already raised in prior posts, and instead spew more propaganda.

    I bid you good day.

    Edited by - Reborn2002 on 31 December 2002 22:4:6

  • pettygrudger
    pettygrudger
    Isn't it interesting how the mouths of the right wingers like pork chop have gone silent? Where'd ya go "the other white meat"?

    Aztec - you are too cool! lmao!

    and of course, we'll hear nothing from Francois! Rush Limbaugh hasn't responded to his frantic emails yet! lol (i am just kidding Francois - my butt still hurts over that Iraq water supply thing!)

  • Aztec
    Aztec

    Thanks pettygrudger! We need to hang out sometime.

    I am still wondering where "the other white meat" went!!! Come back and play with us! We don't have to agree with eachother to be friends!

    ~Aztec

  • Pork Chop
    Pork Chop

    Aztec, I've been sliding down snowy hills so unable to respond. I apologize profusely for not recognizing the fairer sex and withdraw the moron remark. I'll reserve that for Reborn who clearly can't understand English and has no understanding of mathmatics what-so-ever. You buy 'em books and buy 'em books and all they do is chew the covers off.

  • Aztec
    Aztec

    Okee doke pork chop! Truce?

    ~Aztec

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