by UnDisfellowshipped 60 Replies latest jw friends
SS.
You show incredible insight here and have hit the nail precisely on the head.
Why is it necessary for Masons to use exactly the same frame of reference as "Born Agains", for example, when using particular words or even in the interpretation of any writings?
I have parts of this thread on ignore and did not want to comment again but I had to come in and say how well you read the situation. I can happily let it rest now.
Thanks
link
Link
I just want to say that i'm encouraged by your commendation Thanks.
SS
Just for the record, Russell's tomb IS next to a big Freemason's lodge here in Pittsburgh. It's a mansize pyramid with an engraved picture of him on it, and some inscriptions of obscure bible texts. I live in Pittsburgh. I've been there many times, even got really piss drunk once and knocked on it three times, spun around, and muttered as much mumbo jumbo as I could muster, trying to summon Him from Beyond. Charley forbore to comment.
The Russellites (as we call those who still have a crush on the orginal) tend to his grave, I understand. It is a subject of occasional vandalism, understandably.
One thing you've got to realize about that area of Pittsburgh, is that it is FULL of graveyards. There's practically one everywhere you look. It's the oldest neighborhoods in one of the oldest cities west of the Appalachians, so there are a lot of dead white people around here. So just because Russell has a grave next to the Freemasons doesn't mean he is a mason. Tons of cemeteries are everywhere.
CZAR
PS: Abandon your insipid crucified god and worship the Goat!
SaintSatan said:
Can you show from reliable masonic writings that lucifer means satan? What i mean is, is there in masonic writings a definition that says planely that lucifer is satan?
That is a pretty good question, Saint.
However, it really shouldn't matter to followers of Christ whether or not the "Lucifer" that Freemasons serve is supposed to Satan the Devil or not.
Here is the reason why:
Exodus 20:1: God spoke all these Words, saying,
Exodus 20:2: "I am Yahweh your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exodus 20:3: You shall have no other god except Me.
Exodus 20:4: "You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the Heavens above, or that is in the Earth beneath, or that is in the water under the Earth
Deuteronomy 30:17: But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but shall be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
Deuteronomy 30:18: I denounce to you this day, that you shall surely perish;...
Psalm 81:9: There shall be no strange god in you, Neither shall you worship any foreign god.
Deuteronomy 8:19: It shall be, if you shall forget Yahweh your God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish.
Matthew 4:8: Again, the Devil took (Jesus) to an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory.
Matthew 4:9: He said to Him, "I will give You all of these things, if You will fall down and worship me."
Matthew 4:10: Then Jesus said to him, "Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve.'"
2nd Corinthians 6:14: Don't be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what fellowship have righteousness and wickedness? Or what communion has light with darkness?
2nd Corinthians 6:15: What agreement does Christ have with Belial (Satan)? Or what portion has a believer with an unbeliever?
2nd Corinthians 6:16: What agreement does a Temple of God have with idols? For you are a temple of the Living God. Even as God said, "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people."
2nd Corinthians 6:17: Therefore, "'Come out from among them, And be separate,' says the Lord, 'Touch no unclean thing. I will receive you.
2nd Corinthians 6:18: I will be to you a Father. You will be to Me sons and daughters,' says the Lord Almighty."
The main point for Christians is, that WHOEVER the "Lucifer" that the Freemasons serve is, he is most certainly NOT the God of the Bible.
Since Link is the Freemason, I would think he would be in a much better position to be able to answer any questions about who the "Lucifer" of Freemasonry is.
However, he may very well be deceived by the Freemasons in the Higher Degrees (What Degree are you in Link?)
Check out this Quote from a Masonic author, Carl Claudy:
"Cut through the outer shell and find a meaning; cut through that meaning and find another; under it, if you dig deep enough, you may find a third, a fourth -- who shall say how many teachings?"
So, only the 33rd Degree Freemasons know the whole truth (just like the Governing Body of JW's).
Also, where did Freemasons get the name "Lucifer" if not from the Bible?
And, if Freemasons took "Lucifer" from the Bible, the Bible makes it extremely clear that "Lucifer" is a "Rival god" against the TRUE God, and the "Lucifer" is going to be thrown in the Lake of Fire and be tormented forever.
Is that the "god" Freemasons serve?
Check out the following Quotes from Freemasons:
"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" [Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, Page 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff; Red Emphasis Added by UnDisfellowshipped]
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"The day has come when Fellow Craftsman must know and apply their knowledge. The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion, which places the energy of the universe at their disposal. Man can only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability to use it constructively and selflessly. When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare." [Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree, K.T., The Lost Keys of Freemasonry or The Secret of Hiram Abiff, Forward by Reynold E. Blight, 33rd Degree, K.T., Illustrations by J. Augustus Knapp, 32nd Degree, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, Inc., Richmond, Virginia, Page 48; Red Emphasis Added by UnDisfellowshipped]
Who is Tubal-Cain?
Check out this Quote:
"Who was Tubal Cain?" Answer: "He is the Vulcan of the pagans." [William P. Peterson, Editor, Masonic Quiz Book: "Ask Me Brother", Chicago, Illinois, Charles T. Power Company, 1950, Pages 18, 88, 131, 213;] [This information is also found in John Yarker, The Arcane Schools: A Review of their Origin and Antiquity: With a General History of Freemasonry and Its Relation to the Theosophic Scientific and Philosophic Mysteries, Belfast, Ireland, William Tait, 1909, Page 30; also found in A. R. Chambers, Editor, Questions and Answers, 1972, Page 237; also found in Malcom Duncan, Duncan's Ritual of Freemasonry, New York, David McKay Company, Inc., n.d. 3rd Edition, Page 94.]I think everyone will be very interested in knowing who "The Vulcan of the Pagans" is, check out the following Quotes about "The Vulcan of the Pagans":
"Vulcan was a sun deity who was associated with fire, thunderbolts and light. The festival in honor of him was called the Vulcania in which human sacrifices were offered." [Percival George Woodcock, Short Dictionary of Mythology, New York, Philosophical Library, Page 152].
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I think it is obvious from everything I have posted, that Freemasonry is completely incompatible with being a follower of Christ, and the Quotes I have posted show that Freemasonry serves and follows Lucifer, who is most certainly not the Biblical True God.
Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 5 November 2002 23:53:52
Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 6 November 2002 0:5:47
CZAR said:
So just because Russell has a grave next to the Freemasons doesn't mean he is a mason. Tons of cemeteries are everywhere.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe I read that Russell owned a Cemetery (perhaps the one he was buried in?)
SaintSatan said:
LinkI just want to say that i'm encouraged by your commendation Thanks.
SS
Yeah, and I'm encouraged by Link's ability to accuse me of spreading misinformation, and then deny that he said that, and then refuse to point out which information was "misinformation".
Ok, i think i get it now. As far as you are concerned, vulcan is satan the devil. Venus is satan the devil. I guess thor, jupiter, zeus, pan, saturn, and any other mythological figures are satan the devil as well. Heck, according to the reasoning and scriptures you quoted
Exodus 20:3: You shall have no other god except Me.
Exodus 20:4: "You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the Heavens above, or that is in the Earth beneath, or that is in the water under the EarthDeuteronomy 30:17: But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but shall be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
Deuteronomy 30:18: I denounce to you this day, that you shall surely perish;...Psalm 81:9: There shall be no strange god in you, Neither shall you worship any foreign god.
Deuteronomy 8:19: It shall be, if you shall forget Yahweh your God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish.
even jesus would qualify, as he was also called [a] god, he was worshipped by his followers, and continues to be worshipped by millions of christians today. I know he was worshipped in churches i went to.
You still have not provided what i asked for:
Can you show from reliable masonic writings that lucifer means satan? What i mean is, is there in masonic writings a definition that says planely that lucifer is satan?
SS
SaintSatan said:
even jesus would qualify, as he was also called [a] god, he was worshipped by his followers, and continues to be worshipped by millions of christians today. I know he was worshipped in churches i went to.
Correction -- Jesus Christ was not called "a god", He was called THE GOD, and yes, He was most definitely worshiped and is still worshiped and is prayed to as THE GOD.
The Bible shows that Jesus Christ IS JEHOVAH (YAHWEH). He is a Separate Person from the Father, however.
There are LOTS of Scriptures I have posted on different Threads which clearly show that Jesus is THE GOD.
You still have not provided what i asked for
First of all, I posted QUOTES from "reliable sources" that showed that Tubal-Cain/Vulcan is closely related to the Biblical Satan the Devil.
And, like I said before, to a CHRISTIAN, it does not matter WHO the "god" is that you are serving, IF that "god" is NOT the TRUE GOD of the Bible.
If you were to worship Santa Claus, George W. Bush, Vulcan, Thor, Jupiter, Zeus, Pan, Saturn, Hercules, Odin, Baal, Belial, Loki, Venus, Osiris, GAOTU, JAH-BUL-ON, it would be the same difference as worshipping Satan in GOD'S EYES, according to the Bible.
However, I found a few more QUOTES.
Here are Quotes from Sister Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, 32nd Degree Freemason, Ancient and Accepted Primitive Rite, Grand Orient of France:
"One of the most hidden secrets involves the so-called fall of Angels. Satan and his rebellious host will thus prove to have become the direct Saviours and Creators of divine man. Thus Satan, once he ceases to be viewed in the superstitious spirit of the church, grows into the grandiose image. It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God. Satan (or Lucifer) represents the Centrifugal Energy of the Universe this ever-living symbol of self-sacrifice for the intellectual independence of humanity." [Sister H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, Pages 215, 216, 220, 245, 255, 533]
"Lucifer represents..Life..Thought..Progress..Civilization.. Liberty..Independence..Lucifer is the Logos..the Serpent, the Savior." [Sister H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine Volume II, Pages 171, 225, 255]
"It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God." [Sister H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine Volume VI, Pages 215, 216, 220, 245, 255, 533]
"The Celestial Virgin which thus becomes the Mother of Gods and Devils at one and the same time; for she is the ever-loving beneficent Deity...but in antiquity and reality Lucifer or Luciferius is the name. Lucifer is divine and terrestial Light, 'the Holy Ghost' and "Satan' at one and the same time." [Sister H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, Page 539]
Here are more QUOTES from other Freemasons:
"First Conjuration Addressed to Emperor Lucifer. Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of Rebellious Spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode, in what-ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in the Name of the Mighty Living God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, to appear without noise and without ...." ['Illustrious' Arthur Edward Waite, 33rd Degree Freemason, The Book Of Black Magic, Page 244]
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"I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifer, Prince of Demons, that each year I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as as it may please him, and in return Lucifer promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfil my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him. Signed..... { Invocant signs pact with his own blood } " ['Illustrious' Manley Palmer Hall, 33rd Degree Freemason, The Secret Teachings of All Ages, Page CIV]
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I think those Quotes should satisfy just about anyone who is wanting to know whether or not Freemasons worship Satan.
Larc said:
Undisfellowshipped, we have seen all this nonsense before. Please show the docuementation that connects the JWs to the Masons and the illuminati, whoever they are???? No one has shown any connection between Russell and the Masons. The Masons have a membership registry they will share with anyone. Russell is not listed. If you don't believe me, write or call the Masons in PA, find out for yourself.
Below are Web Pages that show, at the very least, "connections" between Charles Taze Russell and Freemasonry:
Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 6 November 2002 5:50:4
I know some "proud members" of the Eastern Star, who are widows of Freemasons and I can tell you the HATE JWs with a passion.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=31132&site=3&page=2
Edited by - plmkrzy on 6 November 2002 6:7:6
I know some "proud members" of the Eastern Star, who are widows of Freemasons and I can tell you the HATE JWs with a passion.That is not the first time I've heard that Freemasons hate JW's. Why is that?
