Eldersystem an error ?

by happy man 14 Replies latest jw friends

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  happy man

  Inn a tread down i see a very intrestring debatt about who this system was put in charge, and that it was R,F who was the creator.

  I have very clear memory of when this system come and who we handel it.

  We have to sitt and was sopposed to tell each other what was our good points, and what wrong we have, some brothers was wery hurt by this examination .

  My expirense is that this is not a good system you dont have to read long on this site to find that terribel abuse have been done in the name of elder system.

  Perhaps this man who put this sytem in charge, was not from Jehova, I think the issu is very well described of the sign down on this site.

  It could bee intresting to hear what you here think of this, is the elder system an erreor?

  And what responsibility they have the creator or the creators?
• 

  shera

  Yes,its an error.Its a mans system,they way I look at it.Its way too judgemental.Do they really think they have God's Spirit directing them..they have wronged so many people and "misjudged" people.Its clear a s a bell...God isnot directing these men.If God spirt was directing these men,I think God would make sure they Got the message clear.God doesnot mumble...
• 

  Blueblades

  If they were appointed by HOLY SPIRIT! whatever that is? Why do they have to check with the CO., the WRITING DEPT., the LEGAL DEPT, the so-called GOVERNING BODY, and all the PUBLICATIONS, before they make a decision one way or the other.It seems to me, that If you had HOLY SPIRIT and you opened the BIBLE,and you prayed to the ONE who gave you that HOLY SPIRIT, you would be able to make a decision without having to ask every one else.The decision would be BIBLE- BASED backed up by GOD. Blueblades
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  Francois

  Blueblades - you have hit the nail right on the head.

  My uncle, a congregation overseer in the old system, predicted the failure of the elder system prior to its being put in place.
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  nancee park

  That there are elders or older servants is not a problem but that JW elders have too much power over others and misuse it is the problem. The elder who takes instead of gives becomes an abuser. Elders in the Bible were not overlords or dictators but untitled helpers, friends, counselors. Worse, those elders over the local elders, the COs and DOs and Gov Body elders, are abusers.
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  outoftheorg

  Hello Happyman

  When we speak of mistakes, we are usually refering to something done, that results in a reaction that we did not expect. In regards the establishment of the elder arrangement. I do not look on it as a mistake. I believe it was a well thought out program put in place with full knowledge of the results it would produce.

  The more I read about and learn about the wbts the more I am convinced that most of the things we may look at as mistakes, are not. I am coming to believe that these things were instituted by the wbts on purpose, to create the control over people and their actions and thoughts that we see are the results.

  When I apply this same conviction to other demands made upon its members by the wbts, such as the blood issue, the political card issue in Africa, alternative service, etc. and ponder the results of that control on the members, death, severe grief, loss of lifes opportunities, self shame, I see the wbts as an evil organization.

  The question I can not answer is why does the wbts want these demands? What is the reasoning behind causing all this death, grief, etc.? What is the payoff for the wbts? The reoccuring thoughts I have when I ask this question is EVIL-SATANIC-PSYCHOPATHIC-CULT SACRIFICES. It is frightening to wonder if these may be the motivation behind these demands from the wbts.

  I see it as unredeemable and not worth restructuring or changing in any way. To me the only answer to my dilemma is to see it destroyed or reduced in size influence and power to where it is no longer a viable influence on mankind.

  Outoftheorg
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  minimus

  Can't you just imagine how the 1st century congregation discussed the apostle Paul's qualifications? Or Peter's? They would have had to live down their past before even given the privlege of passing microphones, I mean emblems.
• 

  onacruse

  The history of church organization is an interesting study in changing structure. B.H. Streeter observed:

  "In the Primitive Church there was no single system of Church Order laid down by the apostles. During the first hindred years of Christianity, the Church was an organism alive and growing--changing its organisation to meet changing needs.. Clearly in Asia, Syria, and Rome during that century the system of government varied from church to church, and in the same church at different times. Uniformity was a later development...It is permissible to hint that the first Christians achieved what they did, because the spirit with which they were inspired was one favourable to experiment." (The Primitive Church, New York: The Macmillan Co., 1929, pp. 267-8)

  The WTS was convinced from 1879-1938 that the "multiple elder" arrangement was the best, then till 1971 that the "congregation servant" arrangement was the best, and since then that the "multiple elder" arrangment is the best.

  Like outoftheorg says: "I believe it was a well thought out program put in place with full knowledge of the results it would produce."

  You betcha! The WTS now has a WHOLE lot of police to enforce their rules. No single congregation servant could ever give headquarters the "coverage" they now need.

  Craig
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  larc

  First of all, the elder system under Russell was much different than the one in modern times. The elders were elected within the congregation and did not need approval from a central authority. They also had the freedom to vote someone out of office at the local level, again, without approval from above. I agree with Francois that the congregation servant was a better arrangement than today's elder system. The congregation servent had sole responibility for the ultimate decisions. It sounds like a dictatorship, but if he messed up, he was responsible to those up the chain of command. With the modern elder system, came a diffusion of responsiblility. No one was to blame if something went wrong. I don't see the change to the elder system as a sinister plot. I see it as a foolish mistake.
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  onacruse

  I recall comments made by many many JWs that the workload on the congregation servant was just too much, and that neither he nor the other 2 Service Committee members could handle all the issues in the congregation. That was one supporting argument presented for having an elder body. Another was the anticipated expansion of the org during 70-75...all these newly trained elders would be able to go out and direct the thousands of new congregations that were expected.

  A sinister plot? No. A deliberate control mechanism? Yes.

  Craig

  PS: It still cracks me up to remember Freddie introducing visitors at the Bethel lunchtable, calling them "elders" when we all knew they were just "servants." A few months later the Watchower came out with the "new light." Talk about running ahead of the org! hahaha