re: question on the magi

by A Paduan 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Yadirf

  Heathen said:

  The JW do not believe that this star was in another galaxy .They believe it was an illusion like a mirage if you will. That the being known as satan could perpetrate something like this is very acceptable to them because the bible does say that satan keeps transforming himself into an angle of light and it seems to fit the story line as well cause quite clearly a star in another galaxy could not be making a trail to where the young child jesus was.

  All that you say is correct, Heathen. We recall that Satan began his campaign against God with a trick of this sort when he captured Eve's attention by causing audible WORDS to come forth from the mouth of a shy, legless, snake.

  Friday

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  Edited by - Yadirf on 25 August 2002 16:12:16
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  Yadirf

  Psuedo quotes the Bible:

  Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they went their way; and, look! the star they had seen [when they were] in the east went ahead of them, until it came to a stop above where the young child was.

  Then Psuedo says:

  The magi were astrologers, how could they mistake a moving object like this as a star.

  Friday compares translations:

  Matthew 2:9, according to the Living Bible, says: After this interview the astrologers started out again. And Look! The star appeared to them again, standing over Bethlehem. (Footnote: Literally, "went before them until it came and stood over where the baby was.")

  It's interesting to note how that (even in view of their footnote) those who translated the Living Bible had concluded that the Magi did not see a MOVING "star," that is, they did not see the star in motion as is commonly believed that they did. When next seen, the star was already "standing over Bethlehem." So, it looks like the translator's here were impressed with the idea that the words "went before them" is to be understood from the perspective of what the Magi themselves must have thought, their perception of the matter. And so when they got to Bethlehem there it was, it must have appeared to THEM that it had gone there before them, that it had preceded them, or "went ahead of them."

  Friday

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  Edited by - Yadirf on 25 August 2002 16:15:6

  Edited by - Yadirf on 25 August 2002 16:23:2
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  pseudoxristos

  Yadird,

  It's interesting to note how that (even in view of their footnote) those who translated the Living Bible had concluded that the Magi did not see a MOVING "star," that is, they did not see the star in motion as is commonly believed that they did. When next seen, the star was already "standing over Bethlehem."

  Of course the translators of the Living Bible don't want to admit that the Magi had seen a MOVING "star". It sounds too much like MYTH.

  So let me get this straight. The Magi saw the star when they were in the East. The star had to be in the West to suggest that Jesus was born in Jerusalem or Bethlehem. Depending on how far East the Magi had been, it is possible that the star was actually over Bethlehem. After beginning their journey, the star was no longer visible. They naturally went to Jerusalem where they would expect the King of the Jews to be. After speaking with Herod, they depart again. The star again becomes visible. The star is now in the south leading them to Bethlehem.

  Please explain where this non-moving-on-again-off-again-star that wasn't really a star but an illusion was located (sounds like the WT new light doctrine). It would have to be high enough to be seen from a nation in the east. Yet low enough to not only indicate Bethlehem, but the exact house in Bethlehem where Jesus was located.

  Your insistence that it did not move seems to indicate that you still want to hold on to the idea that it was an actual star. Is there really a problem with it moving if it was only an illusion?

  pseudo
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  mevirginia

  Maybe the moving star was a flying saucer

  On Human Nature: (What is truly valuable?)
  What Changes are next, be prepared!
  Don't be caught unprepared.
  ---Venus will be visible as the evening star, till AUG.27th,
  ---Jupiter and Saturn morning stars, till SEPT.10th when Mars will join them as morning stars.
  AUG.30, 2002
  3rd Quarter M O O N
  8 Gemini
  "Year of the Horse" The horse was said to be one of Gods favorite creatures. So maybe it was a horse.

  Edited by - mevirginia on 25 August 2002 19:2:46
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  pseudoxristos

  LOL @ mevirginia,

  Maybe the moving star was a flying saucer

  That fits the account better than anything else mentioned.

  pseudo
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  Jeremiah Lee

  What is interesting to note, is the fact that God warned the magi in a dream of Herod's plan. Seems to me to be appoving of Christ's worship..cf..Rev5:13. Why give gifts to a baby?!

  Why not knock that star out of the sky anyhow....but yet wait to merely warn the Magi in a dream. Am I the only one seeing this problem here?

  God bless,

  Lee
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  pseudoxristos

  Good point Lee.

  Yet another reason to show that the author of Matthew was not writing a historical account, but a symbolic story meant to show that Jesus was the expected Messiah. He probably never expected it to be picked apart like this.

  I have always wondered why an all-powerful God is portrayed as acting in such an indirect manner. The account of the Flood is also a situation where God could have acted in a more direct manner. Why would God go to all of the trouble to have Noah build an Ark, collect all of the animals, then flood the entire world. Force Noah and his family to care for these animals for a year. Then finally when the floodwaters recede have Noah immediately sacrifice some of those animals just to please him. Wouldn't it be easier for God to just snap his fingers and be done with all of the evil people?

  pseudo
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  A Paduan

  They came in celebration of His birthday ! Maybe that's why the wt doesn't like them and seeks to say that satan led them.

  paduan
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  Yadirf

  It's interesting to note how that (even in view of their footnote) those who translated the Living Bible had concluded that the Magi did not see a MOVING "star," that is, they did not see the star in motion as is commonly believed that they did. When next seen, the star was already "standing over Bethlehem." -- Yadirf.

  Of course the translators of the Living Bible don't want to admit that the Magi had seen a MOVING "star". It sounds too much like MYTH. -- Pseudo.

  Apparently, you think that the translators of the Living Bible lied.

  Depending on how far East the Magi had been, it is possible that the star was actually over Bethlehem.

  The "star" wasn't actually "over Bethlehem" when the Magi saw it the second time, it was over Jesus' home. The translator's of the Living Bible were wrong on that count.

  Fact: The "star" was low enough to single out Jesus' home.

  Question: When the Magi first saw it, when they were in the East, was the "star" at the same low altitude?

  Answer: Why think otherwise? There seems to be no necessity for doing so! A "star" of unusually low altitude would just as well accomplish the purpose for which Satan caused it to appear as would one of high altitude. As a matter of fact, the more unusual Satan could make it to appear the more captivating it would be for the Magi. The intent of the "star" in the first instance was merely to point the Magi in the direction of Israel. And that was accomplished simply due to the direction in which it lay in relation to where the Magi were, namely in the East. How far away was the "star"? Well, an unusually low altitude light, in order to be seen, would need to not be so very far away from where the Magi were based.

  Please explain where this non-moving-on-again-off-again-star that wasn't really a star but an illusion was located (sounds like the WT new light doctrine). It would have to be high enough to be seen from a nation in the east. Yet low enough to not only indicate Bethlehem, but the exact house in Bethlehem where Jesus was located.

  See "Answer," above.

  Friday

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  Yadirf

  Paduan says:

  They came in celebration of His birthday ! Maybe that's why the wt doesn't like them and seeks to say that satan led them.

  You're quite wrong for thinking that the Magi had come to celebrate Jesus' birthday, Paduan. The gifts they brought were not birthday gifts, they were gifts brought to be given to a KING. Too, had you forgotten that at the time of the Magi's visit Jesus was around 2 years old? He wasn't an infant laying in a cradle, as the world of Christendom depicts the scene at Christmas time.

  Friday

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