Plum
seems there are a number of people around the forum with problems at the moment, especially in MSN.
So, youre not alone.
lol
Where is Zion?
by refiners fire 24 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
Kenneson
The original name of the W.T. magazine was Zion's Watchtower and Herald of Christ's Presence. Wonder if that makes Rev. 14:1 a literal place? If the Jws can pass off the number as literal, why not the Mount Zion? Of course, they have a problem with interpreting a literal Lamb and literal names of Father and Son written on people's foreheads and literal virgin men. And, also, in Rev. 7 they have a problem with literal tribes of Israel being sealed. But, you see, that magic number, 144,000 is literal, no matter if everything else is figurative.
-
refiners fire
yes, they do get themselves into trouble, and its all because they make predictions then have to rationalize them later when they dont happen.
I started this thread about the Mormon view of zion and how convoluted their present interpretation is because Zion was predicted to be built literally in Missouri. Then they had to rationalize the predictive failure .
The Witnesses interpretation of revelation is worth going thru ,verse by verse, from one of the Revelation books , for those who can be bothered. The mixing of literal/ figurative fullfillment taking place within a single verse is quite apparent.As your refernce to revelation 14 v 1 demonstrates.
With Regard to Revelation 7, Im not aware they say much about that. Perhaps its a Bible chapter they tend to skip, though i did read a while back, a publication from Rutherford times that espoused that each of the sealed 12,000 lots refered to different PERSONALITY types. 12,000 compassionate practical men, 12,000 compassionate emotional men, 12,000 vigorous proselitizers, etc, etc.
Cant remember the book I read it in.
If the dubs ever come to my door again I'll invite them in and insist on studying Revelation, verse by verse, after all...they are Bible students. None of their books to be used. I'll make them do their homework before they come. That should screw them up somewhat!
Edited by - refiners fire on 5 July 2002 20:39:21
-
refiners fire
The only JW Revelation books i have now are from the 60s. "Then is Finished the Mystery of God" (1969) ...says about the 12000 x 12 subdividing of the 144,000 in Revelation 7:
...."In Revelation 7 verses 4-8 the smallest units into which the 144,000 sealed ones are broken up are the tribes,each tribe of this spirit annointed Israel being made up of 12,000 members. The partitioning of the spiritual Israel into 12 equally large tribes represents the final arrangement of them in the heavenly kingdom. It denotes a balanced organization , in which no favoritism plays a part. In the Holy Bible twelve is a number representing organization ".....(page 92)
huh. Theres that word again! ..... thats all the book says on the subject .
-
Double Edge
In the first half of the 19th century there were numerous religious sects trying to establish a 'Zion' society...the Mormans were just one of many. The North Eastern part of the U.S. seem to be where the majority of these 'sects' were established. The Shaker community tried their darndest, but was self defeating with their doctrine of celebacy (duh).
The Mormans (mostly from the North) put quite a foothold in Missouri, but were 'driven' out, in a large part because of politics. A pro-slavery/Southern sentiment by many Missourians drove out a lot of their "northern" leaning neighbors...however, with the Mormons the Govenor signed an extermination order on all Mormans...to be driven out or killed.