More advice needed for dan! (page 2)

Cappuccino OC

Hey Dan,

I believe in taking risks in life. If I was offered a job with a 'new' company paying at least 6,000 more per year, I would seriously look into it. I would also request the job description, salary (plus pay step raises)in writing and benefits.

For me $2k a year does not make a difference. If you're single, then you will pay about $500 in taxes. You'll maybe have a little bit over a $100 increase in you NET pay.

I also can't believe such a low salary. As a secretary I made $35,000 a year without a degree. Now I will graduate with a double major and continue to go on to medical school. Since I have earned 35,000 I will not take a job that pays under that.

Food for thought,

Capuccino OC (aka Oveja Callada)

PS
I sent everyone e-mails who responded to a demonstration at the WTS & yours came back as doesn't exist.

Francois

OK Bboy, I've been where you are a couple of times in the last 40 years. Here's what I'd do.

1. You've already got it in writing. Make sure you keep it.

2. If you're so good in their eyes, why are they attempting to tempt you with only $2K more?

Do some research on the web. Find out how much people are making in this area with your level of experience. Talk to some head-hunters and consulting firms like TechServ, Cap Gemini, and other types like that. Surely there's a salary survey somewhere.

If they're only going to give you a little bump now, you can bet your raises won't be any better.

If they say something like, "we'll take care of you the first of the year, next year this time, the next full moon, when hell freezes over," or anything out in the future, you can forget it will ever happen. Get it up front or you'll never see it. Never.

Once you find what the real salary should be, let's say it's 45K. Then you ask for 50K and let them hassle you down.

2K additional is an insult in my opinion. All they're doing is saving themselves the time and effort of looking for someone else. They're using you for a convenience, make 'em pay convenience prices.

So, to condense and repeat:

Get as much as you can get UP FRONT. Do your homework. What is your talent really worth in your market?
Believe no hogwash about how they're going to take care of you later.
You're young, you can afford to take chances. If they don't meet your demands, say no pleasantly and hang up. See if they call back.
If you like where you are, and you can't get more from the VPs, tell your boss they're after you, have made a good offer and give him a chance to bid up the offers. Play both ends against the middle. Just don't be obvious. That will piss off all concerned.

You will let us know how it comes out?

Francois

outnfree

Bboy,

For $2,000 [8>] more now, I would not give up "full health and stock options" for "annual reviews, raises, as well as other incentives, bonuses, 401K, once we get going."

I agree with Francois and the others that getting the benefits up front -- including part ownership and a bigger salary lure -- is the way to go. Also the way to see if you're really valuable to them or if they're just too lazy to find another candidate.

Good Luck!

outnfree

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift

outnfree

The location is nice, though. I can see in my minds' eye just where that is!

outnfree

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift

bboyneko

Yeah I agree, I was insulted by the email too. I guess Ill just continue to do free-lance work for him. Theres plenty of out of work designers he can hire.

Hmmm

Joining a startup is always risky. You take lower pay because there's a chance of really hitting it big. But it sounds like you're already in this position with your current job. That's why, to me, the 2K salary difference is a non-issue. Both are start-ups, so both are going to offer you bottom dollar.

Get specific details about the future growth for your position at the new company, and compare it with the growth potential with your current company.

One thing I would ask about is getting stock options now. If this company does take off, you want those founders shares.

You could also hint at this offer to your current company and see if they'll sweeten your current deal.

Hmmm

Nathan Natas

I think your evaluation of this is correct, Dan.

One add'l thing to consider - is the free lance work you're doing for this guy PAID freelance work? Could your current employer view your "freelance work" as conflict of interest in any way?

Just a couple more things to worry about - I knew you'd want that.

lauralisa

Hi Dan,

Okay, I'm typing this while my majorly-talented and amazingly creative and successful SO is dictating. We just moved from Baltimore, and he is familiar with the territory in your line of work. (He's a 3-D computer game artist.) Here we go:

Initially, the salary increase is so insignificant that you almost HAVE to counter, especially if these guys are in the 10K/month category.

If you are interested in working in Baltimore, the professionals there are: Carton/Donafrio and Alexander and Tom. These guys are seriously into web development for major corporations. They, in fact, may be looking for new talent, and are worth a consult.

Agree to sign a NDA (non-disclosure agreement) and find out who the clients are and what the scope of the projects on hand actually are. Since the job they're offering you is Senior Designer, you should be privy to contract details such as time scope, budget, etc. This may inform your decision as to the viability of the company.

I can not stress enough: the position they are offering you and the salary quote are not in line with what positions in Baltimore such as this can command. I'd say counter with 5K over what you feel comfortable in accepting, and negotiate back from there. Personally, I wouldn't look at it for less than $40K (and that's working 'cheap').

With good freelance contracts, you could easily earn 32K and work six months out of the year.

If you are a good artist, you might also check out the computer game companies in Baltimore and Hunt Valley; Microprose/Infogrammes, Firaxis, Big Huge Games, Breakaway Games, Leaping Lizard (Silver Springs) among others. A junior artist starting out can command $40K to start, with full benefits and 401K, etc.

Additionally, if you are a good artist, with a good portfolio and wish to look further into this arena, send mail to laura at [email protected] and I'll be happy to provide you with some contact names at these companies.

Be well, Evan

(laura's amazingly talented and fabulous future husband)

More advice needed for dan!

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