One month researching my doubts: my crucial issues with WTBTS - what are yours?

by Tornintwo 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • Tornintwo
    Tornintwo

    So after 20 years a convert, about a month ago I decided to start listening to my doubts and to do independent research about the WTBTS teachings (naughty me). As a result I have consolidated my position on various points and these are my major issues with the WTBTS teachings, I am posting these to help myself figure things out (with your assistance) and hopefully to hear from others at their stage of drawing away from the GB - ‘newbies' especially. In the form of notes so hope you don’t mind...

    Child Abuse

    Terrible treatment of child abuse victims, wrong advice to victims of sexual abuse and domestic violence resulting in harm and danger to the victims.
    Not just the odd isolated case, there are many examples and organizational policy is to blame, eg. 2 witness rule, confidentiality, 'protecting' Jehovahs name by discouraging reporting to ‘worldly’ agencies.
    Adversarial attitude to victims who want justice, treating them as greedy and litigious instead of apologizing and seeking to make amends.

    Shunning taken to the extreme, parents told not to associate with children, splitting families for decades. Youths are often the victim of this policy, having been encouraged to be baptised as children before they really knew what they were committing too and the consequences - then ironically 'the world' often helps to pick up the pieces of their broken lives.
    Star chamber judicial proceedings (accused not free even free to record), people disfellowshipped even when they say they are repentant (how can humans judge what is in another’s heart?), the long punitive process to be reinstated, not inline with prodigal son account or account in Acts.
    Paul's examples were a) speaking of the antichrist (those who deny/oppose christ) Also corinthians indicates a short period of disfellowshipping and the individual was rebuked by the ‘majority’, not everyone.
    The reality of our policies is that we can have child abusers in the congregation, freely associating with families and preaching to the public (who say they're repentant but we all know the facts about that particular deviance) at the same time we have individuals perhaps disfellowhipped years ago during youth for something silly like smoking or fornication, who now live decent lives with family of their own etc, (but who didn't get reinstated because they no longer believe it's the truth) and these are still being ignored by their own parents/relatives and shunned by the JW community for decades! Crazy!

    Elevation of the GBThe habit of equating GB teachings with Jehovah, not allowing for individual thought/disagreement even if done in all good conscience based on scriptures. Even though GB regularly change thought. Elevation of the GB members to celebrity status.


    The light gets brighter. Can we believe that this would mean the Holy Spirit would reveal falsehood which would be taught for decades having fundamental effects on people's lives, only to be retracted/changed because of increasing 'light'. If the scrip is to be used in these terms then the only way that could be justified is if the GB had said, 'we don't understand clearly this scripture yet', until a later date 'light has revealed it to mean this...'. It cannot be a justification for teaching falsehood.

    Along the same lines, grey areas such as civilian service alternative to military service, blood fractions, oral sex, holding a political ID card in a one party state: these should never have been 'ruled upon' resulting in great suffering, imprisonment or disfellowshipping, family break up etc.

    False predictions made in Jehovahs name: 1914, 1925, 1975, the generation who were cognizant in 1914, by the end of the 20th century to name the major ones…see Deut 18:20-23

    Blood: can a symbol of life mean more than life itself?
    Can we really need know how Jehovah and Jesus feel about blood transfusions?
    Surely Jehovah would not punish us for wanting to save a life, even if in doing so we inadvertently 'sin', surely this is where Jesus sacrifice and mercy come into play? Why should GB presume to punish such with disassociation and shunning?
    Fraction allowance, changes in doctrine on blood and transplants show hypocrisy. Eg. I can benefit from donated blood in terms of fractions but cannot donate blood as a JW.
    Although if following scripture blood is obviously not to taken lightly and I wouldn't eat a blood sausage, clearly when it comes to life- saving medical treatment this should be a conscience matter.

    All others will die:
    Despite efforts to thinly veil the actual beliefs to make them seem less brutal. The GB teaches that you must be associated with the organization to have any hope of survival. There is no allowance made for children. Those with limited or no access to the 'truth', sincere/good people of other faiths or no faith. We are asked to believe that they will be judged on their response to our preaching, so if someone is busy on a Saturday morning and refused a magazine about, say, smoking then they are actually rejecting everlasting life on paradise earth!?!? who knew?
    Many many JWs internalize a personal view that others will survive 'Jehovah will be the judge', as I did for decades. The reality is the WT teachings are hardline on this point and the very latest thought reminds us that we shouldn't expect a mass conversion during the great tribulation.
    I ask my JW friends on this point, if you were in an arena with 100,000 people standing before you, and you have a machine gun to execute all unbelievers, would you kill all but the 100 who are active Jehovah's witnesses? Based on the warning already given by the preaching work and their reaction to it?
    Some will say, and I did, 'the message will get clearer before the time of the end, the choice will be clearer', well I hope so. But looking at the work today, there is a long long way to go before everyone truly could know that they're rejecting everlasting life in paradise earth by not seeking out JWs. See jwfacts on this point which as always makes very astute points:
    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/salvation-only-for-jehovahs-witnesses.php
    The sickening thing is, although there are the 'kinder' JWS out there, there are also the hardline ones whose comments jar in meetings - saying things like 'we should expect people not to be interested deep into the last days, they've made their choice, they can't say they haven't had a witness’ and those who seem to delight in talking about the so called coming Armageddon slaughter eg. Anthony Morris on comparing scorched human flesh to hotdogs!? Yes I am sure Jesus would have talked like that Brother Morris, nice Christian attitude, well done!

    Birthdays: so a piñata is acceptable because it might be a little bit pagan but has lost all pagan connotations, same with wedding rings...but birthdays still aren’t? Now can anyone tell me if their non witness friends/relatives murder people on their birthdays or perform pagan rituals? Take the candles away and what exactly is the problem? I hate the fact that I've deprived my kids of these normal events.

    Money: asking for money by TV channel? what?!!? when I converted I was so proud that we werent like other religions, we didn’t have a hierarchy, we didn’t ask for money - what is going on!

    Okay that's it for now, sorry for the rant -please post your crucial points, let's help each other see clearly. I'm retaining my faith in Jesus and Yahweh/Jehovah. Haven't been able to bring myself to study major doctrinal issues such as little flock, the flood etc yet.

    Now what to do? Most of my immediate family are still in, I don’t want to lose them and my friends/community who are sincere and good people in the main. Frankly this whole thing process is completely torturous.

  • freddo
    freddo

    I pretty much agree with that list.

    What to do? Ahhh ... What. To. Do?

    Take your time and think. Just being mentally free is liberating. Make your plans by reading on here and being careful. Do not D/A in a the heat of the moment. Do not talk to any other witnesses just yet.

    Any reason why you can't take a few weeks to think it through, go through the motions and decide then?

  • adjusted knowledge
    adjusted knowledge

    Nice summation.

    If you make a decision to leave or DA, then you must face the reality to restart your entire life.

  • dozy
    dozy

    The list looks fine - there's probably a few I would add ( blatant deliberate mis-quotes , for example ).

    Re your last paragraph - sadly - nothing will prepare you for the sudden change of "status" with your JW associates. You will lose all your "friends" overnight - at best one or two might keep in touch. My wife (faded ) literally had 80 "un-friends" on Facebook over one weekend. Her best friend since childhood wrote her a "you are going to die at Armageddon & I want no more to do with you" letter. This is especially true if it becomes known you have "apostate" views.

    Immediate family - well , good luck with that. A lot depends if they are Society zealots or genuine Christian types. I'm also faded not DFd or DAd but my JW siblings wrote to me telling me that unless it is "essential family business" they would have nothing more to do with me. I've seen them a couple of times in 7 years. And I've been lucky compared to some.

    Are you prepared to completely re-build & re-evaluate your life? Perhaps even looking honestly into some of the bible accounts , like the flood ( how exactly did the lemurs get to Madagascar , or the Koalas to Australia. ) My JW cousin knows everything you do & more but admits that he hasn't got the circumstances to leave ( he's got a very elderly father ) so he is just plodding on going through the motions like a lot of JWs. Whether or not your marriage survives , then maybe look at moving to a different area , getting a new job , building a whole new circle of friends & associates. It is difficult , but do-able - just takes several years.

  • Bonsai
    Bonsai
    Yep. Thanks for sharing your notes. Don't forget about the U.N. issue, as well as revisionist history about their idea of what 1914 meant then and now. Also, what biblical precedent is there to support their harsh reinstatement process for those who were df'd or da'd? There isn't one.
  • Giordano
    Giordano

    All of your points are well thought out and well said.

    Back in the mid 1960's we didn't even know 2/3's of what you wrote. For us it came down to two issues, the blood doctrine and Armageddon.

    Basically my wife and I didn't have access to the kind of information we have today so while we were pioneering, where the need was great, we realized we would accept blood if we faced a life threatening illness or accident. So that was the thread that unraveled the ball of doctrinal string.

    Armageddon also seemed like madness. Eventually total miss trust for the WTBTS it's teachings with it's the circular reasoning etc.

    There comes a time in one's life where you have to grow up or grow out of harmful beliefs. You have to realize how much unbelief is necessary to make belief possible.

    It took us a few years but we faded. In those days you didn't get shunned as much as today. However our lack of belief and disdain for the Society was the 800 pound gorilla in the room when it came to close family. As far as the friends went they stopped being friends.

    We did have to start our young lives over (mid 20's).

    Thank goodness we did.

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath
    you dont think it might be a cult perhaps ?
  • Tornintwo
    Tornintwo
    stan livedeath - you dont think it might be a cult perhaps ?
    (how do you do that 'copy someone's comment in a little yellow box' thing that you all do?)

    Well, I'm starting to consider the possibility!

    thanks for all your answers, 'Freddo' it's good advice to take some time and not to act rashly, considering my family situation which is complicated to say the least. I'm/they're not ready for the big reveal yet, but they know I'm going through a tough time. Like you say it's mentally liberating, at least I don't have to feel guilty about what I don't do/do anymore!

    Bonsai - good point about the UN issue, that really stood out to me as hypocrisy in the extreme, especially in light of the stance in Malawi (and the contrasting situation in Mexico).

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Misogyny: the Organization's disdain for women

    God's Chosen/Exclusive Truth: this goes along with your 'all others will die' but is broader because JWs have elevated themselves above all else claiming they have exclusive knowledge of 'Da Troof' and are God's Chosen. This creates holier-than-though, self-righteous, a-holes.

    Flip-Flops: similar to 'the lite gets brighter' except that it's complete reversals of previous lite, then coming back to former lite that was changed but now adopted once again. Makes one nauseous and dizzy.

    Torn said: (how do you do that 'copy someone's comment in a little yellow box' thing that you all do?)

    Hey Torn, see that " (quote) icon/button next to the B icon/button at the top of the text window? Select/highlight whatever text you want to quote with the mouse, then hit that " button.

  • fleshyheadedmutant
    fleshyheadedmutant
    How about their stand on education? How many very capable and bright children were told that instead of college they should pioneer and clean windows?

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