The Present Truth is the Truth and the Old Truth is the Truth, even if they contradict.

by garyneal 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    silent - "The simple act of humbling themselves before Jehovah and before the rank and file, admitting they make mistakes, or dare I say it - repenting to the flock - would have done wonders for their reputation and in a positive way..."

    You're absolutely right; man up and 'fess up, and damn the consequences.

    Authoritarian regimes never do that, though.

    silent - "...But they dare not because it would not only undermine their authority, but can you imagine the backlash if they made a blatant correction about blood transfusions?"

    Screwed if they do, and buggered if they don't.

    I'm also quite certain that pride and hubris are also factors, not to mention a deep-seated (if rarely acknowledged) fear of organizational collapse. Remember, without the WTS, these men would have nothing. They would be nothing.

    silent - "...their lawyers would be working overtime then!"

    Yet another reason.

    Those selfsame lawyers would be working overtime against the very real possibility of significant loss (i.e. not getting paid), so using "mistakes-were made-(but-not-by-us)" rhetoric is in the Legal Deptatment's best interests, too.

  • Separation of Powers
    Separation of Powers

    In a HUGE discussion with a loyal friend who will not throw me under the bus for my current position (hopefully), this same attitude came up. He was vehement in his loyalty to the "channel of truth."

    My comment to him, "You, all of us, are entitled to our opinion. But, we are not entitled to a set of truths that are not, in fact, truths. Reality is reality, it may be perceived differently by you, but you can not deny it. It is, and always will be, the determining factor in any argument, position, or belief. Don't allow an organization to dissuade you from recognizing a falsehood or set of falsehoods by skewing your perception of reality."

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    stirred: "Oh well, we all make mistakes......said the trapeze catcher."

    I've made similar points to my wife as yours when I pointed out to her that it is one thing for witnesses to carry on as if the heavenly events that occurred in 1914 actually happened. It stays in their head and has no real impact on their lives. But when it comes to doctrines concerning life and health its impact cannot be ignored. So what about those JW's who lost their lives refusing an organ transplant only to have the WTS rescind the doctrine? How did their family members take it? She attempted to defend them by saying that throughout history people have sacrificed their lives to defend their beliefs. As true as this statement is, how many witnesses would've died refusing organs if the WTS had not told them to believe that receiving an organ is akin to cannabilism? How many witnesses would accept blood if the WTS considered it a conscious matter? How many now take blood fractions (she did during her pregnancy) now that the WTS considers them a conscious matter? Whose principles are these people really dying for?

    Sadly, when I lump them in the same camp as the Christian Scientists and the religious nut jobs who refuse any form of vaccinations she winds up defending them along with the witnesses. For I guess to admit that a Christian Scientist who allows his or her children to die rather than receive proper medical treatment is someone who died for a principle that was false would be too perilous to admit if the same thing can be applied to WT teachings.

    silent: "What's the point of beating my brains out and putting in tons of hours while digesting meeting after meeting after meeting only for the slim chance that "perhaps" I might make it?"

    That statement was what I had struggled with as well as an IFB who believe it or not preached "once saved always saved." They infer that while "once saved, always saved" may indeed be true, backsliding or continuing to live in sin could call into question whether or not you were truly saved. Fortunately, the Southern Baptists were a lot more forgiving by comparison and allow for a more human element which is probably why I found their doctrines more palatable. The IFB's had me constantly questioning whether I was in God's good graces and I did not begin to feel that way again until I began attending the meetings with my wife.

    Anyway, back to your topic on truth - if I'm going to surrender myself to an organization and a thought process, it had better be 100% right - especially if they are inspired of God.

    I remember feeling the same way back in 2009 when I began this wild journey of mine that took me to unexpected places. To quote Evid3nc3 (a YouTube blogger who posted a series on his deconversion to atheism) following truth became more important to me than following God. That was when the scales began to fall.

    But they dare not because it would not only undermine their authority, but can you imagine the backlash if they made a blatant correction about blood transfusions? Holy smokes...their lawyers would be working overtime then!

    Hence why they'll never rescind the blood doctrine, their only hope is that medical science comes up with a substitute that can perform the same function as blood. If that happens, they'll be prasing Jehovah for the provision and giving themselves so much credit for standing steadfast on His teachings concerning blood.

    ucantnomore: Got it, I have Ray's books as well. Did not read Christian Freedom all the way through but I did read Crisis of Conscious. Good man he is.

    notsurewheretogo: impeccable reasoning that is unfortunately lost on a dub.

    punkofnice: indeed

    magnum: and don't forget those alien encounters, people believe them so they must be real. Same goes for the tooth fairy, etc.

    shirley: "I wonder how many JWs realize that their held beliefs about the wishy-washiness of Jehovah™ eviscerates their most cherished beliefs?"

    I don't think they give it much thought and if they do, well, they end up becoming apostates.

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    garyneal, I empathize with you. I was married to a dub that sounded much like that with her convoluted logic and circular arguments. It got to a point you could never discuss anything about the organization. I would get so flustered I felt like hitting my head up against a wall.

    Like other posters said if this is a spirit directed organization, then they shouldn't get anything wrong. Things like 1975 was not a matter of changing light but an out and out lie.

  • Terry
    Terry

    He responded by saying that it was the overzealousness of the witnesses that caused them to believe that 1975 was significant and nothing that the WT actually did.

    _______________________________

    To which nobody ever seems to reply: "WHAT WAS the actual significance of that year, then?"

    If JW's were OVERLY zealous, what was the exact amount of zeal encouraged by the WTS for a NON-EVENT which took up

    over 7 years of every JW's time?

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    "Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them"

    1984 by George Orwell

    In the end, when she has no more wiggle room to justify her answers she resorts to threats

    Yeah, tell me about it !!!

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    Classic example of the pot calling the kettle black:

    .

    Awake, 70 4/22 8-10 Changes That Disturb People
    Changes That Disturb People

    THE churches are in rapid decline. Even in the United States, where religion still enjoys perhaps the greatest popularity, nearly three out of four persons polled said that it is losing influence. Why is there this decline in religion?
    One of the reasons is that people are disturbed by what is happening in their churches. Yes, millions of persons have been shocked to learn that things they were taught as being vital for salvation are now considered by their church to be wrong. Have you, too, felt discouragement, or even despair, because of what is happening in your church? A businessman in Medellín, Colombia, expressed the effect the changes have had on many.
    "Tell me," he asked, "how can I have confidence in anything? How can I believe in the Bible, in God, or have faith? Just ten years ago we Catholics had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in this. Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe ‘new things.’ How do I know the ‘new things’ will be the truth in five years?"

    ...The change in teaching has shaken their confidence in the Church. Would you not feel the same way if what you had always been taught to be vital for salvation was suddenly considered unnecessary? Would you not be inclined to question other teachings of your church also?

    What Becomes Evident

    The inability of the Church to explain its position Scripturally makes evident an important fact: The Catholic Church has not based its teachings upon what God’s Word says. Rather, it has founded many of its beliefs and practices on the unstable traditions of men."

  • Legacy
    Legacy

    Hi,

    Did anyone ever see the brighter light before the Society. How many have read the scriptures & said to themselves, this is what it meant, you go to your meeting & find out it meant something else...then in a while a new light, but you knew this before they did....So why can't you go to the society & say, hey, I think this scripture may mean this...but noooooo....you can't be more insightful or spiritual than the FDS...oh no....

    As far as I'm concerned...the light can be brighter, that's ok, but don't shut down anyone if they see it before they did. One comment was that someone said, it was always there...so if it was always there, how come nobody spoke on it...you know why...because you would be called an apostate/opposer of the truth....It's like a person, leaving a good person & saying...you were good all the time...I just didn't see it...The WT can make mistakes, that's ok, that's why they put erasers on pencils, but don't say that WE ARE GOD'S MOUTHPIECE...in essence you are saying...God lied to us first...

    Legacy

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    I might as well post a link to this UNASSAILABLE thread!!!

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/275576/1/Active-JWs-can-you-defend-THE-TRUTH

    DD😁

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