Who's to blame?

by ozziepost 75 Replies latest jw friends

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  ozziepost

  When Viv Mouritz , former branch coordinator in Australia, addressed the special meeting of Sydney and surrounding area congregations at the Superdome last weekend, he blamed the young witnesses who were leaving "the truth" for the drop in numbers in Australia.

  At the Service Meeting this week in one Sydney congregation it was announced by a Bethel elder that the elders have been told (as if they didn't know already!) that 2,000 have left "the truth" in the past two years in Australia. This typical congregation of 120 publishers has lost 19 inactive since 1999.

  The March 2001 issue of Kingdom Ministry (Australian edition) gives the number of publishers for December as 58,426, pioneers 3,315 and 19 baptized.

  In Dec '98 there were 58,706 pubs,and in Dec '99 there were 58,000.

  With 1,600-1,800 being baptized each year, there is indeeed a 2,000 shortfall.

  So, who's to blame? Is it the kids? We know that Jesus said that "the love of the greater number would cool off" and that many believe he was speaking of our day.

  What do you think? Is it the kids? Is it the older more experienced ones who are departing?

  Ozzie (not looking for the easy answers)
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  DannyBear

  Ozzie,

  Wish I had a better handel on this one. Most of the figures reveal a down turn, not the big gains they are used to.

  I think a more appropriate question is: How many of the so-called faithful r&f are truly 100% in heart and mind, or are they harboring more doubts about their faith, just hanging on?

  If the youth are leaving, they are doing so, based on the real facts of life. 'Out of the mouths of babes' come honest appraisal. They recogonize hypocracy alot faster than their older counterparts. It the kids are leaving, then maybe the parents have already left, if not in body in spirit.

  Danny
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  Xandit

  The Organization has been very definite in the past that the "love cooling off" thing did not apply to JWs. Wonder if that's going to change?
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  bjc2012

  Xandit,

  Maybe they will look at the word that is translated as love in this verse and discover that it is 'agape' and since they are certain that christendom does not show this kind of love, they may discover that it does apply to them. Now what?
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  MDS

  Precisely "bjc," ... exactly my point.

  This is a "curious" point, since the WTS also says that they are the only religion in the world that truly displays "agape" love.

  If that is the case, then, this scripture MUST then, by necessity, apply to them and only them.

  Why?

  This verse at Matt. 24:12 that speaks of the "love [agape] cooling off" is in fact, the same Greek word used for translating the English "word," LOVE, yes, AGAPE.

  This is a "cooling off," of AGAPE, or a love based upon "principle", as the Greeks would have referred to in that day.

  Also, it merits mentioning that Greek for the "increasing of lawlessness," -- the Greek word here, actually has to do with a "religious lawlessness," as in the expression mentioned in 2 Thess. 2:3-12 where the "man of lawlessness," is mentioned. This is a "religious" type of "lawlessness," or a breaking of God's Law, not man's law, but God's...

  A religious "lawlessness," or breaking God's commandments. His Law.

  Thus, when you combine all of this information...a religious "lawlessness," and the Greek word for "principled love," ... agape, then, we can easily recognize what people Jesus is talking about here in this verse.

  ...a body of christians who have lost their christian "love," among themselves... God's Name People, modern-day Israel of our times...

  ...Jehovah's Witnesses, as a world wide organization.

  MDS

  Edited by - MDS on 22 February 2001 16:48:49
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  larc

  mds,

  Since they are not the only people on this earth that display agape love, the scriptures MUST NOT apply to them.
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  MDS

  Larc,

  ...again we say, it is a "religious" form of "lawlessness," ... a breaking of God's Law, not man's.

  The same Greek word for "lawlessness," as for the one mentioned 2 Thess. 2:3-12...as in the "man of lawlessness." The Greek word.

  So, we have a "religious" law-breaking, or a religious "apostasy," here that Jesus is discussing.

  Jesus is discussing in Matt. 24:12, spiritual "apostasy." Also, its effect up the "Christian Love," or "agape" love.

  So, the culprits are a "religious" body of people, who are breaking God's Law.

  Thats what the evidence shows.

  MDS

  "Behold it, you scorners, and wonder at it, ...YOU WILL BY NO MEANS BELIEVE even if anyone relates it to you in detail." -- Acts 13:41
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  larc

  mds,

  Fact is, there are millions of people on this globe that practice Agape love. I know many on the DB do, however, in my very humble opinion, I don't think you do. For example, when Logical told of his troubles, I saw an outpouring of love on the board, but not a peep from you.
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  Frenchy

  So who's to blame for the young ones leaving? A couple of years ago we were told at a KS school that the reason there was a drop in meeting attendance was because of the poor quality of the meetings. When translated this means, of course, that the elders were to blame for the drop in meetings. So we sat elbow to elbow in metal folding chairs for hours on end listening to how to do meeting parts. So who is to blame this time?
  When the C.O. told us at a recent meeting that the Society was concerned about the drop in meeting attendance I reminded him of that KS school. Then I told him that when I first started attending meetings (at about age 9)it was in a run down, smelling hall with only folding chairs. No platform, no mike, no a/c. Most of the brothers there had trouble speaking English let alone reading it. Several there could just barely sign their names. I told him how we had to hitch a ride with a sister (the same one I posted about earlier that lost her two sons within three days.) for a forty mile round trip twice a week to the meetings. The dollar we gave the sister for gas was a hardship on us, just to let you know our financial condition at the time. Yet we went. And we went to the assemblies although we had to depend on the hospitality of people in the assembly city for a place to sleep which meant sleeping on a pad on the floor and eating baloney sandwiches three times a day. Still we were thrilled to be able to go.
  Now all of a sudden we're concerned about the quality of meetings? It wasn't the quality of the meetings that made us go and want to keep going. I asked him outright what he thought the problem was. Of course, C.O.'s today are diplomats. They say nothing one way or the other. I told him outright that the problem was really quite obvious. I told him that today Witnesses simply don't believe anymore. If they did, they would come to the meetings regardless of the quality of the program. They would come to the meetings even if there was no one there to get on the platform and say a word!
  I told him that if the Society wanted people going to the meetings then they had better address the problem of why so many have lost faith.
  He thanked me for my comments and read his prepared speech from the Society and reminded us to do a good job with our parts on the meeting.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
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  bjc2012

  Larc,

  I believe that you are describing 'philia,' brotherly affection, and not 'agape.'

  bjc