by jerome 49 Replies latest watchtower scandals
amac what bothers me the most is that they didn't even think about doing anything with Bill Bowen until the Dateline show became public knowledge. His website has been up a long time and they've obviously known about it.
The only sin they seem to have committed is "divisions" and that's pretty sad.
I'm inactive but the more of this that goes on, the more tempted I am to have some closure and DA myself.
Never Squat With Yer Spurs On
Again, he seems to be anti-WT, so of course they would want him out. Maybe this was the straw that...whatever.
The other cases I can't comment on, but either way. This is all besides the point I was trying to make on this thread, that many on here will fault the WT no matter what they do. I am GLAD those articles are on the web page. Is there anyone here who doesn't think they should be up there? Is there anyone here who thinks the information in the articles is wrong?
It depends on the purpose of it being up there. The timing sucks, for one thing.
If the purpose of printing these articles, and of placing them on the webpage, is to 'prove' to the world that this is the way Jehovah's Witnesses are, then it is blatant hypocrisy.
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On the other hand notice this quote: "Some 4,000 years ago, the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were famous for depravity. Pedophilia was apparently among the region's many vices. Genesis 19:4 describes a sex-crazed mob of Sodomites ranging "from boy to old man" seeking to rape Lot's two male guests.<
Consider: Why would mere boys be inflamed with the idea of raping males? Clearly they had already been introduced to homosexual perversions.<
This is a blatant and flagrant lie. Watchtower has been taking a lot of flak for this, and to put this up on a public webpage at this time is no less than inflammatory.
The Bible says no such thing. This doctrine that 'this is what the Bible says' has long ago been proved to not be properly translated into English (and Watchtower made it even worse by translating from the incorrect English into incorrect languages to boot.)
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And did you notice this quote:
>Some legal experts advise reporting the abuse to the authorities as soon as possible. In some lands the legal system may require this. But in other places the legal system may offer little hope of successful prosecution.<
This is the ONLY reference to reporting abusers to authorities. Is there some reason this is totally BURIED in part of a paragraph on this whole webpage? And why 'some legal experts'? Is there ANY legal expert that would NOT advise (or want) abusers reported to authorities? Is the Watchtower trying to say by default that medical authorities DON'T want abusers reported? Or that SOCIETY doesn't want them reported to authorities?
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Thsoe articles are extrememely outdated, do not meet the needs of Society and children today, don't begin to adequately protect children, they contain material that is misleading and inflammatroy and should never have been placed on this website at this time.
And if you want support, notice how you have to DIG to get the dates of these articles? Why is that?
Why is the WATCHTOWER dealing with pedophilia in the Watchtower publishing company not up on its website?
I'll tell you why. Even the WATCHTOWER realizes how inflammatory and bad publicity THAT article is.
UADNA-US (Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America-United States)
Dung -
Please look at the title of each article and tell me how the information in that article is incorrect keeping in mind the relevance to the topic.
Again...would you prefer these articles be removed? Would you prefer this information not be available? Do you really CARE for the children and their well being? If so, then why would anyone fault someone posting this information?
Edited to make the post "nicer"
amac
Your point?: Nothing that the Watchtower does will ever be enought to please the JW opposers and fault finders. Even though they have made an obvious attempt to try to correct an on going situation with pediophila by informing the general public and their own membership the opposers what still managed to find fault. You just cant win.
Reply: That assesment is not necessarily true. You cannot confuse individuals who are still recovering from their experience as or incounter with Jehovah's Witnesses with persons who have the ability to recognise an obvious political manevuer by the Watchtower Society inorder to protect its public image. The former individuals find it very difficult to address any Watchtower related issue with objectivity simply because of the psychological damage that the Jehovah's Witnesses have inflicted upon them. These people simply cannot be objective because it cause them too much pain.
Not many people will tell you that they are not individuals that nothing that the Watchtower does will ever be veiwed as positive because it is a known fact.
The same is true for some active Jehovah's Witnesses themselves who cannot find anything positive to comment on about the WT critics.
The points that have been made with respect to the Watchtower placing an eight year + old article on their website are:
It was done
1) Not out of concern for abused children but to protect organisational immage.
2) It still does not focus on the real problem which many have pointed out to be the policy which requiers two witnesses to be available to the molestation before action can be taken.
3) The pervailing attitude which serves only to protect the name of the organisation rather than to protect the child. Namely that which prevents the abuse from being reported to the propper authorites [law enforcement] when a case is verified simply because it may bring reproach apon Jehovah's name.
4) Something should had been done along time ago while people were protesting. Their pleas were left unheard for many years so they had to take it to the media and only now is any effort being made to even begin to asses the problem.
Another poin WT appologists have made: Bill Bowen is seeking the demise ot the Watchtower Society. He is simply using the issue of child abuse to further his goal.
Reply: Show me proff of you accusation. Show me where Bill ever stated that he wanted to bring about the demise of the Watchtower Society.
In fact he has stated the opposite.
Addition to that reply The Watchtower Society is a cult. It incourages anti social behaviour mainl attitudes which are to the detriment of the social fabric of all society.
According to them the world is shuch a bad place that anyone who dosent become a Jehovah's Witness will be destroyed by God Almighty in some of the most horrific methods descriable in a very short period of time.
They have been proven to be liars time and again, they have destroyed untoled familes with their shunnin policy, they have been continuing to hoard money form the [wordly] general public who are kind enough to offer them donations then they condenm to death by the hands of their God, they are indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands of loyal Witnesses who have been accepted erreonou medical advice over the years and the list continues.
One of their most recent on going atrocities is their refusal to revolve their erreonus blood policy which is continues to cause the deaths of approximately three Witnesses daily. [ http://www.ajwrb.org]
They apparently care more about avoiding lawsuits and maintence of membership than saving their own members lives.
They are truly a cult.
jerome
make sure that any such professional will respect your religious views.#
With any luck, said Therapist will be familiar with the Theokratic War Strategy and won't mind lying his ass off.
I can see it now....
"Why yes, Brother and Sister Faithful, I'll make sure little Susie doesn't doubt *for one minute* that your religion has her best interests at heart!"
And with any luck as soon as he is able to talk to Susie one on one he will tell her:
RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN. YOUR HAPPINESS IS AT STAKE.
Lisa
Wishful Dreamer Class
That was good, LDH I totally missed that.
Those articles need to be removed. They need to be replaced with information more pertinent to
the needs of children,
to the dangers of pedophiles,
to the total unfitness of JW elders to conduct investigations and to 'spiritually treat these offenders and the victims
to the issue of reporting procedures
to the specific damage that has been done to the reputation of JW.
I don't know why JW apologists are even on this board. You say what you have to say ONCE, it won't get heard anyway after the first five times.
If you beleived we were her to 'take down the Watchtower' that we have our own agenda, and on and on and on;
WHAT IS THE POINT OF THEIR DIALOGUE WITH US? It's the public you need to worry about, and I suggest you get off your lazy a*s and get out there trooping door to door and try and undo the damage that Watchtower has done in your community.
You di**heads are only here to hurt us some more.
May your souls rest in pices.
UADNA-US (Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America-United States)
Jerome -
Not many people will tell you that they are not individuals that nothing that the Watchtower does will ever be veiwed as positive because it is a known fact.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand this sentence.
The same is true for some active Jehovah's Witnesses themselves who cannot find anything positive to comment on about the WT critics.I think I need to understand your first sentence before attempting to understand this.
It was doneWho cares, as long as the information is available. And since they did write that article in the first place, I would have to argue that they have some interest in the topic and looking out for our children.1) Not out of concern for abused children but to protect organisational immage.
2) It still does not focus on the real problem which many have pointed out to be the policy which requiers two witnesses to be available to the molestation before action can be taken.First of all, I don't think that is the "real" problem. I believe the "real" problem is getting the active parent to involve the authorities ASAP, even before the elders.
Second, I have no problem with the elders taking no action on just one witness. They are not investigators, and I don't want them to be. If there is only one witness they should say they can do nothing and encourage the victim to go to the police for action. Then if a court of law finds the person guilty, the elders can equally punish him on their findings. In addition, if people do accuse someone of molesting and are unwilling to go the police, they should remain silent and not slander, unless they are willing to prove what they are saying in a court of law. If they give up their right to involve the authorities, they give up the right of labeling the accused as a molester to others. The major flaw is the numerous elders who have discouraged people from going to the police. I hope these are local problems as WT policy has clearly stated their should be no sanctions on those that do go to the authorities.
3) The pervailing attitude which serves only to protect the name of the organisation rather than to protect the child. Namely that which prevents the abuse from being reported to the propper authorites [law enforcement] when a case is verified simply because it may bring reproach apon Jehovah's name.I agree that all cases of child molestation brought to the elders should be reported to the police. However, their current policy of not reporting in certain states does not PREVENT the abuse from being reported. The primary responsibility is still on the active parent involved. They are ALWAYS obliged to report them to the authority. Either way, this has little to do with the articles on the web page as these articles have little to do with identifying and punishing the perpetrator. They are more to do with spotting the problem and preventing it in the first place. I'm all for that.
4) Something should had been done along time ago while people were protesting. Their pleas were left unheard for many years so they had to take it to the media and only now is any effort being made to even begin to asses the problem.Again, this has little to do with attacking the good information they have put out about child abuse. And I believe the policy has been changed so that it has been clearly stated that no sanctions are to be held on those that do go to the authorities.
Another poin WT appologists have made: Bill Bowen is seeking the demise ot the Watchtower Society.I certainly stand corrected on this. I thought about what I posted about him on this thread and searched some of his older postings where he has clearly stated he has no issues with any other beliefs by the WT, only their policy on child molesters. If he has bothered reading this thread, I hope he accepts my apology for misquoting him.
I will not respond to the rest of your post as you seem to be ranting about someother topics.
By the way, are you the same poster who was dating a JW but have never been one?
amac
Your reply is much apreciated.
Let me reprhase that sentence which you couldent understand.
What I meant to say was:
There are people [former witnesses and those who have never directly involved with the WTBS] which nothing that the Watchtower does can satisfy will satisify them. They choose to ignore the positive things that Watchtower does and ond only focus on the negatives. Also too if the Watchtower happens to do something that noone can find fault in they treat it very suspeciously. As you said nothing that the watchtower does ever seems to be worth taking positive note of.
Much in contrast they are active Witnesses who cannot say anything positive about a Watchtower critic.
As you can see it goes both ways.
As for my ranting.
I am not too shure if you still happen to believe that the JWs have this 'truth' but all I was saying is that if this is the case then it has been proven and documented that the Watchtower Society leaders caannot lay claim to that title simply because they donot pass the Biblical test of authenticity and nethier does their logic stand up to scrutiny. I am sorry if this is offensive to you. Considering the insults and tall claims that the Jehovah's Witnesses make against Christianity and every other religion they should have extrodinary proof to back up their statements.
Extrdinary claims require extrdinary evidence.
I beleive that the Watchtower has none.
A man that can admit his mistakes is one which I believe deserves respect and you have earned a measure of mine.
And yes I am dating a Witness and have never been one. Unfortunately I had noidea of what I was getting involved with because I thought that they were just ordinary Christians but with a weird spin on the Bible. I dident even know what was a cult farless if the jehovah's Witnesses were one.
jerome
I noticed the Sub-Title
Cautious as Serpents
Wonder who they are talking about?
Themselves ar somebody else.
Really slick (from 1993?).
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1993/10/8a/article_02.htm
