So the people with the REAL truth are apostates!

by ILoveTTATT 24 Replies latest jw friends

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  Joepublisher1

  I want to make a couple of comments about ILoveTTATT's admission below:

  "No, we don't have all the answers. We don't know if there IS a God or there isn't. We don't know what TRULY happens to us when we die. But here's a newsflash: NEITHER DO THE JW'S!!"

  As JWs we're taught, 'Where are we to go, if we leave JWs?' So, many JWs adopt the viewpoint, 'If you can't show me something better, why should I leave?' Well, I can't answer that for your personally. For me, it was my conscience that prompted me to leave. I mean, how can I preach to people that 'we have the truth' when I know that is simply not true. Worse than that, how can I support a religion that has not been completely forthright with its members about TTATT! I can't... I won't belong to such a religion.

  Knowing what I know now, I've had to accept the fact that there are answers in life that I just don't know, nor do I believe that religion does either (including JW's religion). I remember in the beginning of my association with JWs how they seemed to have an answer for just about everything. That should have been a red flag to me back then, but I was too involved (brain-washed) to see the error in accepting that notion. (I thought they answered everything from the Bible, but in reality it was the WTS's (men's) interpretation of the scriptures and we know what happens when imperfect men "interpret" the Bible. (btw: The Bible on its own is full of contradictions and weird stories - esp. the Hebrew Scriptures - so trying to find God through the Bible alone is a waste of time. As many times as I have read it, it produces more questions than I can document.)

  The reason I'm not sure there is a God is a simple one. In every religion, there's some sort of clergy class (leaders) who are necessary to explain what God teaches and wants (even in the religion of JWs they are called the Faithful and Discreet Slave). If there was a God, certainly there would be a method where he could communicate to us and in such a fashion that we know it's him and that he can be trusted. Of course, most religions teach that we can't approach God because of our sinful condition. Well, first of all, if the only sin I committed was being born than that doesn't seem fair at all! Second of all, why do the teaches seem to get a free pass and are the only ones who seem to have a "special" relationship with God? In every religion, one thing is constant. It's lead by imperfect leaders that make mistakes and can't be trusted with your life's goals and life itself. Life is too precious for that!

  Finally, if there was a God and people (like us) were mentally/emotionally trapped in a false religion (like JWs), why didn't God - if he is real - do anything about it? So, you'll have to excuse me if I don't trust religion anymore and don't especially believe that God exists.
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  rmt1

  anonymouz, evolution produced high intelligence predatory animals through spatial reasoning and the capacity to imagine trajectories and likely positions of prey even when not seen by eye. This is the simplest form of faith or belief. Our species took that basic predatory capacity and ran with it. We have produced so many imaginary spaces that are populated with our projections, anticipations, estimates, hopes, dreams, hungers. But that is how evolution which produced a more highly refined gray matter inadvertently produced a tool-using, tool-building, time-planning animal. To be blunt, faith or belief is chemically bound up in the motivations of this human animal. A God, a god, a dog, a deity does not have to have anything to do with what happens to our species. But evolution to first order has resulted in a species which has that largest number of options for the largest number of specimens for the longest lifespans (yes some other species live longer), and that is before we take a second order look at political/socioeconomic difference. Based on the evidence or data that I see with my own eyes, I find (it's just me, I know) that faith in evolution is more grounded than faith in a gestalt zeitgeist of collective moral dissipation. I don't know how you can go out and measure "What is the moral caliber of the atheist", or "what is the moral caliber of the non-JW", but you might be surprised to discover that it exists. It has to exist, through the existence proof of civilization that has extended our life span, medical options, knowledge, conveniences. Civilization could not grow, could not exist, in a kingdom of thieves. Something to think about. (No, you don't have to hug anyone. Yes, you can be perfectly grumpy and still have faith in the world outside the KH.)
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  Joepublisher1

  Phizzy, I e-mailed Paul Grundy about this:

  "As to the JWFacts.com web site, the most telling thing about it, for JW's is that, if you can show that something on there is wrong, factually, doctrinally, or whatever, Paul promises to change it.

  I really must e-mail the wonderful chap and ask him if he has ever had to change anything of substance, I very much doubt it."

  Paul responded that he mostly doesn't hear from any JW with any valid corrections. I mean, how could a JW correct Paul's web-site (unless it was a type-o) concerning quotes taken directly from WTS literature. Of course, the whole web-site doesn't contain only WTS quotes, but JWs don't seem to be able to find anything of substance to discredit. No lies, no mistakes, no objections, unless you consider the "new light" doctrine to be an explanation/rebuttal to Paul's JWFACTS web-site. Of course, Paul even deals with that man-made doctrine on his web-site (JWFACTS.COM).

  On a related point, I have challenged some JW apologists that I have engaged in conversations on YouTube to prove one lie or one mistake on the JWFACTS web-site and not ONE JW has ever been able to do that! (So much for the WTS caution that apostates are liars who speak half-truths. Also, as mentioned by someone else on this thread, the WTS never speaks about the details - they just blanketly call apostates liars and then provide NO PROOF of that statement.)

  As a side, I'm sure Paul Grundy would love to hear from you. I have written him (more than once) to thank him for his web-site and all the work that he put into it. (You can go to his web-site to find his e-mail.) Paul's website has helped me immensely to draw my own conclusions about the WTS/Jehovah's Witnesses!
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  dog is god

  I remember being puzzled as to apostates picketing the assemblies. My mom said not to look at them. There was a woman, I think her name was Bonnie, who started Jehovah's Christian Witnesses here in Seattle. The rumour was she was put out about sisters not being able to wear pants and not being able to give talks. It kept things stirred up for a while.
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  EndofMysteries

  I'd rephrase it as the so called apostates aren't the bad guys.

  My quick story....I like most others thought of them as bad rebellious people who wanted to drag everyone else down with them.

  I stumbled onto so called apostate info, but it didn't phase me, it was mostly in one ear and out the other.

  For me it was doing personal bible study and especially under the prophecies, Daniel, Revelation, etc, and noticing that what the society taught was not consistent, didn't match up to the other scriptures relating to the same prophecies, and finally seeing how before Armageddon, that "Israel" and it's leaders were all doing wrong and all the commandments were the teachings of men. Since we are taught that JW's are modern day Israel, I saw in the bible clear as crystal they were in big trouble and everything it spoke about with their condition perfectly matched what's going on in the society.

  Also I had met and got to know other "christians" and seeing how good they were, they helped the poor, even morals, etc, and they really felt they were serving God, I couldn't make sense of why they would deserve to die for not believing in 'the truth' when 'imperfect men' had repeatedly messed up predictions, etc, and left a bad track record. How could they be convinced with a record like that? What makes them worthy of death when they behaved better than most JW's I've known.

  SO after those things, I then started to see what the so called apostates had to say, read crisis of conscience, etc, and was shocked to learn the so called apostates weren't twisting things at all or making lies, everything was true. Then seeing how the society was the one lying, and trying to cover things up, etc.

  As it stands I'm on a personal relationship with God, and I get my light through my own studies and holy spirit, etc. I feel awakened and newborn in a sense and I am still learning and will soon know what path I shall take.