Guns don't kill people, Bibles do.
The New Pledge of Allegiance.
by apostate man 20 Replies latest social family
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Xander
Guns don't kill people....PEOPLE kill people....with GUNS....
I hate to say it but I don't think it helped anything by removing it from the schools
I completely miss the point. You mean, if the teacher finds a student silently praying to himself, he gets the boot right away? Bullshit. Students can pray ALL THEY WANT in school.
What was taken out was state-sponsorship of school prayer. AND IT SHOULD BE. What if your community was predominantly Wiccan? The 'school prayer' would then involve students casting a circle and honoring various gods and goddesses before lunch.
Would you be offended if you kid was forced to partake in that? Judging by your other posts, I'd say YES. But, it's okay to force christian beliefs on others?
Did you hear about the high school student who was suspended because she wore a shirt that said ABORTION IS MURDER?
Citing individual cases is stupid. Did you hear about the high school student who was kicked out of class for refusing to sit in their chair? No? Well, that's because it isn't news, is it?
Teachers have a lot of freedom to be total cocks over their beliefs, but I'd point out, you yourself admit:
she was allowed to return to school with her shirt
Ahhh, so it obviously was not any kind of policy problem here, just an individual teacher. Okay, SO WHAT?
Note that I graduated only 5 years ago - we most certainly had prayer groups and christian youth groups IN THE SCHOOL. If someone was inclined that way, they had a place to go.
State-sponsorship of such things is WRONG. The state MUST NOT CHOOSE which religions are 'okay' and which aren't. To suggest otherwise is just stupid and will promote even greater disharmony.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana -
4christ
Hello.
How could a shirt "force" a birth? Does a shirt that says pro choice force an abortion? That was the thing in this case, the kids wore whatever they wanted and some teacher got offended by the shirt this young woman wore. BTW, it also said "You will not mock my God. You will not silence my message" The problem was the word God. It wasnt just the teacher, the vice principal upheld it and reprimanded her. There was a monthlong standoff between her and the school. All the while everyone else gets to wear whatever they choose, but not her. That is intolerance!
I understand why people don't want teacher led prayer in schools. No, I don't think its okay to force Christian or any other beliefs on others. I dont think they should burn all the books I don't agree with, either. The problem I've seen is, people go on about "tolerance" yet do not apply the same rules to beliefs and groups they don't like or agree with. There are kids having their rights violated by the intolerance of teachers and administrators, and in the name of tolerance! I think there is too much intolerance going on on ALL sides. Particularly with the way society is today, anything goes, except religion!
Why is citing individual cases stupid? What does a kid refusing to sit in a chair have to do with the subject? This individual case, I think, is within the topic at least. The company that sold the shirts said it had recieved at least a dozen calls from other students whose shirts were censored, so its obviously not a completely isolated incident.
If you want to see the article, its at:
www.family.org/cforum/citizenmag/features/a0019351.html
peace to all-L
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heathen
I agree with the stance of not forcing religion or politics on children.I am a firm believer that public schools only obligation is to teach the neccessary tools to work and live in the united states.The 3 r's if you will.As far as clothing I for one would like to see some kind of dress code but it should also be determined by parents and teachers not the government. I like the poem however.
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Xander
Perhaps I should rephrase:
Citing individual cases of discrimination/intolerance/etc BY INDIVIDUALS is useless.
If the school counsel obviously upheld her right to wear it, the problem was not with the school policy now was it?
The point I was making about the other example, is that teachers (or vice principals) have a lot of ability to display their own agenda.
That DOES NOT mean there is some kind of organized anti-god agenda at work here.
All the while everyone else gets to wear whatever they choose, but not her.
I find that impossible to believe. Mind if I pull out my school handbook? Things that are prohibited (and I quote):
"Clothing and patches or badges promoting slogans; also, any alcohol, tobacco, sex, profanity or inappropriate slogans; also, any type item(s), clothing, protruding jewelry, etc., that may distract from the educational process or create a safety concern are also prohibited. This includes any chain that is not part of the garment's original design....Clothing with holes is not permitted....suitable foot covering must be worn according to shop/class regulations"
Blahblahblah, and on and on. No mention of excluding religious texts. My brother's high school had similar ordnances. I'd challenge you to find me in righting ONE school that prohibits students from wearing religious texts on their shirts.Other stuff:
"Clothes and hair are expected to be neat, clean, and not create a disturbance or health/safety hazard. Dresses, skirts, shorts, etc....must be a length no shorter than 3 inches from the top of the kneecap. No sunglasses permitted. Coats, bandannas, and hats are not to be worm in the classroom/lab or halls. Clothing not permitted includes, but not limited to: thin strap tops, tank tops with low cut sides, sheer material tops, altered clothing not properly hemmed, tops exposing the bare midriff or navel, cycling shorts, and running shorts".Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana -
4christ
Xander: that is YOUR school handbook. Every school is not your school, or hers for that matter. There are alot of schools where clothes with profanities and alcohol are either allowed or the prohibitions against are not enforced. My schools were probably not as strict as yours from the sound of it. I am about 10 years out of high school.
The school this girl went to allowed marilyn manson and eminem but not her shirt. I am not trying to say theres some big conspiracy. This kind of stuff happens though, too often, and most kids would have been shamed into not wearing their shirt. I think if theres going to be rules they should apply equally.
I just did show you a school that tried to. The teacher AND the Vice Principal. It took them a month to decide she had the right to wear that shirt.
peace-L -
Xander
The school this girl went to allowed marilyn manson and eminem but not her shirt. I am not trying to say theres some big conspiracy
What I'M saying is, that if you whipped out her school handbook, I'd be REAL surprised to learn that shirts with profanity on them are allowed but religious texts are not. Note that there is nothing wrong with just having a Marilyn Manson or Eminem shirt - the point of the original poster is:
kids are wearing marilyn manson shirts and blood and gore and anything else they want, yet she wasnt allowed to wear her shirt
What I'm saying is that, I'd bet that, according to her school handbook, that statement is patently false.
In order for it to be true, obviously, the ONLY clothing 'banned' would be religious clothing - there could not be a restriction or 'ban' on ANY other kind of clothing.
In fact, I've got a paypal account. Bet you $20. You don't even have to use her school handbook - find me ANY contemporary, US, public school handbook that bans religious texts exclusively.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana -
Xander
Sorry, misquoted, wasn't the original poster who said the above....
I think if theres going to be rules they should apply equally
Anyway, my point is...yes, there are obviously rules. YES, they are applied equally by the administration as a whole.
If individuals teachers or VPs are creating problems, attacking the system (IE., 'taking god out of school is the cause of so many problems') is the wrong approach.
Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana -
4christ
Xander: Just because something is or isnt in the handbook is not the point. Its what actually happens that is the point. I am sure you know as well as I that what the rules might say and what actually happens are two different things. So, regardless of what her handbook might say, in real life where it counts, she was censored.
peace-L -
apostate man
UUUGGHHH.
OK, since I have to SPELL everything out, here it is.
By "Force" a birth, I meant...
First, Who USUALLY gets pregnant in HS? USUALLY it is the girl that has a low self esteem, comes from a poor background, has an abusive father or the father has left the family, is a slut or whatever, you get my point.
Second, not in all cases, but who would be prone to wearing a shirt that says "ABORTION IS MURDER"? I would think a popular student or a student that is a leader and/or has strong leadership skills, NOT ALWAYS BUT USUALLY.
Now, if thats the case and a girl gets pregnant in school, don't you think that some PEER PRESSURE would have an effect on what this girl decides to do? Do you think that she would want to be known as a slut and a MURDERER? Me thinks not. This would help "force" her into that decision.
Notice I put "force" in quotes.
Break the chains that bind you,
unless, of course, you're into that sort of thing.