PTERIST:Please show me EXACT scriptures that show the exiles that you are talking about, i.e. """"last deportastion (year 23 of Neb2)"""" because when this letter was written they were NOT in exile, show scriptures like I have done, if you want to claim Biblical authority and NOT secular (Josephus).
Hi PT:
Okay. Thanks for explaining yourself further and bearing with me.
First of all, the more important issue for Jeremiah was not the exile but the laying desolate of the land. The land had to be laid desolate for 70 years to pay back its sabbaths. The exile to Babylon was incidental to the need to remove all the people off the land. So the 70 years for the land and the removal of the last deportees are the same 70 years. Here is the critical scripture that establishes this -- 2 Chronicles 36:
20 Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign; 21 to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years."
Okay, this is how I'm interpreting this. "Those remaining from the sword" is a reference to those who escaped from destruction when Nebuchadnezzar II went down to Egypt after the Jews who fled there refused to leave. Those who were left were to return, at least a short while to Judea as confirmed by Jeremiah 44:14 and 28:
14 And there will come to be no escapee or survivor for the remnant of Judah who are entering in to reside there as aliens, in the land of Egypt, even to return to the land of Judah to which they are lifting up their soul[ful desire] to return in order to dwell; for they will not return, except some escaped ones.’”
28 And as for the ones escaping from the sword, they will return from the land of Egypt to the land of Judah, few in number; and all those of the remnant of Judah, who are coming into the land of Egypt to reside there as aliens, will certainly know whose word comes true, that from me or that from them.”’”
So the ones from Egypt who had escaped from the sword were the primary population, though quite small, who were in Judea in year 23 or Nebuchadnezzar II and they are the ones who made up the last deportation. These were the ones who when removed off the land allowed the land to become completely desolate and empty, without occupant and no one harvesting anything. During the time they were in Babylon, they would serve 70 years while the land paid back its sabbaths.
Now Josephus simply reflects this by saying on the seventieth year after their removal from the land they returned in the 1st of Cyrus. His reference at Ant 11:1:1 is clearly a paraphrase of 1 Chronicles 36. Now we look at Zechariah 1:
Zech 1:7 On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, that is, the month She´bat, in the second year of Da·ri´us [the Mede], the word of Jehovah occurred to Zech·a·ri´ah the son of Ber·e·chi´ah the son of Id´do the prophet, saying:... 12 So the angel of Jehovah answered and said: “O Jehovah of armies, how long will you yourself not show mercy to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, whom you have denounced these seventy years?”
This scripture notes that the 2nd year of Darius the Mede was the seventieth year after the "denunciation" of Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, meaning their destruction. Jehovah had not yet shown mercy to these cities, meaning, they were still desolated and uninhabited at this time; the Jews were thus still in exile in year 2 of Darius the Mede. That also means this was 3 years after Babylon had fallen. But how is it that the Jews were still in exile some 3 years after Babylon had fallen? The answer is in the specific reference to exactly when they would be released in 2 Chronicles. Note they were to remain in exile until the "royalty of Persia began to reign."
Now this is something often missed. That is, if the last deportees were not deported until year 23 and were to serve 70 years and this was 4 years after Jerusalem fell, then 70 years after Jerusalem fell meant they still should have been in exile, which they were, and had 4 more years to go. That means that Darius the MEDE, who was the grandson of Nebuchadnezzar II and thus a legitimate Babylonian king, would rule for 4 more years before the Jews were let go. But this contradicts nothing, since Darius the MEDE was part of the "royalty of the MEDES" and not the "royalty of the PERSIANS." Cyrus the PERSIAN would not begin to rule over Babylon and thus the entire Medo-Persian Empire until Darius the Mede abdicated his kingship to Cyrus, which was after a 6-year rule. So only when Cyrus became king over all of Persia can it be said that the "royalty to PERSIA began to rule" and that is who released the Jews in his first year -- Cyrus the PERSIAN and not Darius the MEDE.
So it was not when Babylon was conquered by Darius the Mede and Cyrus that the Jews were released, but not until a 6-year rule of Darius the Mede occurred. During the time the "royalty of the Medes" were ruling, the Jews were still in exile, wondering when God would show mercy to Jerusalem and the cities of Judah. But then Cyrus became the ultimate king over all the empire and all the other "kings" of the smaller countries took up the title of "governor." There would now be only one king and one royal family. But it was at this critical point that the 70 years of exile of the last deportees ended and they returned.
So in reality, Zechariah 1:12 directly contradicts your notion that the 70 years of exile referred to Jehoiachin and those deported at the end of year eight of Nebuchadnezzar II. That's because the exile had not ended even 70 years after the fall of Jerusalem, which is dated to year 2 of Darius the Mede. This means Darius the Mede ruled for six years before Cyrus the PERSIAN came to the throne and that is when he released the Jews and many others in his first year.
So you see what a dilemma I'm in. Knowing this, there is no way the Bible and the revised secular records can be harmonized, even if COJ tries to round off 70 years to 66 years in his notion that this referred to some type of Babylonian domination.
To contradict this, you have to claim that 2 Chronicles does not confirm that the land was to be desolated to pay back its sabbaths for a full 70 years in connection with the "escaped ones" who were deported, which is a reference to those who had ran down to Egypt and now had returned to Judea. These are more direct scriptures than you quoting Matthew.
I respect your position and how you want to interpret this if you want, but my hands are tied.
Even so, just as a reminder, the VAT4956 requires us to date year 37 of Neb II to 511 BCE. It's not an academic option. A lot of people are not there yet, but its waiting there for them when they get serious and real about ancient history.
Thanks for your input. It is good to understand another view, even if in the end we still "agree to disagree."
