Josephus Does Write About Jesus Christ

by villagegirl 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  villagegirl

  I just happen to have the complete works of Josephus, right here in front of me.

  Josephus wrote several books including the Antiquities of the Jews. Chapter 3 under Sedition of the Jews against Pontius Pilate; concerning Christ .... paragraph 3 Quote : "Now, there was about this time, Jesus a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. he drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pontius Pilate, at the suggestion of the principle men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those who loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day as the divine prophets had foretold thes and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. " ( for all of you who think Josephus did not mention Jesus Christ, please refer to the Antiquities of the Jews Chapter three a portion of which I quoted here. )

  Josephus was born in AD 37 and wrote the Antiquities, after Joseephus witnessed the destruction of Jerusalem with Titus, in 70 AD, Josephus was then commisioned to write a history of the Jews by commision from the Flavian family - Hundreds of years before the establishment of any Catholic Church. for reference: ISBN 0-8254-2952-8 Library of Congress Card Number 60-15405
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  Jeffro

  Antiquities was written in the 90s AD. However, no reference to the specific passage you cite is known prior to the fourth century AD. It is broadly considered to be a later addition by Eusebius.
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  villagegirl

  Antiquities of the Jews was published in AD 93. But is was certainly written before that date. In AD 64, Josephus was twenty six years old. He began his studies at 16 years old of the three major sects of Judaism and at 19 years old he joined the Pharisees. He was born in in AD 37. At 26 years old he was already a prominent lawyer and went to Rome to obtain the release of certain priests who had been tried by Nero. He wittnessed the destruction of Jerusalem, AD 70. At that time, he was comminsioned to write a history of the Jewish people by the Flavian family, and Titus the son of the Emperor. Since he wrote this history by commision, and he was already an author, it is reasonable to assume that his research, his familiarity with the early Christians, was far more direct and personal than any we could possible have two thousand years later. "attributing" something does not mean it is true. The works of Shakespeare are "attributed" to Ben Jonson, this hardly makes it true. And the claim the Antiquities of the Jews were written four hundred years later and by a different person ? Was every scholar of the time asleep ? No one noticed the time difference ? Or the fact the works was already published and in libraries? Why is it so hard to believe Josephus mentioned Jesus, when the Roman Court Documents of the Trial of Jesus are still in existence ? This trial is still used in the study of Law.
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  MrFreeze

  I don't think anybody ever said Josephus didn't write about Jesus. Josephus never met Jesus. All he heard were second/third hand accounts.

  Penn Jillette said it best.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Cghd37JLc
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  goatshapeddemon

  Moreover I believe that particular passage is of dubious authenticity. Spurious, as it were.
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  goatshapeddemon

  I mean, what Jeffro said.

  Sorry, VG. I was all excited about that passage too. I have since given up on the pursuit.
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  mP

  VG:

  Firstly many who believe Josephus wrote about Jesus of the gospels make some very wrong assumptions based on their xian knowledge or bias.

  There were many men called Jesus in the first century. There were also many Messiahs or Christs(Greek for Messiah) in that time.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah

  The literal translation of the Hebrew word moshiach (messiah) is “anointed,” which refers to a ritual of consecrating someone or something by putting holy oil upon it. [ 1 Sam. 10:1-2 ] It is used throughout the Hebrew Bible in reference to a wide variety of individuals and objects; for example, a Jewish king, [ 1 Kings 1:39 ] Jewish priests, [ Lev. 4:3 ] and prophets, [ Isa. 61:1 ] the Jewish Temple and its utensils, [ Ex. 40:9-11 ] unleavened bread, [ Num. 6:15 ] and a non-Jewish king (Cyrus king of Persia). [ Isa. 45:1 ]

  In Jewish eschatology, the term came to refer to a future Jewish King from the Davidic line, who will be "anointed" with holy anointing oil and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age. The Messiah is not considered to be God or aSon of God. Belief in the eventual coming of a future messiah is a fundamental part of Judaism, and is one of Maimonides' 13 Principles of Faith. [7]

  Even Paul says there are other Christs and to be aware of them and not to be led astray.

  The list on wiki is short as one can see there were many. Notice that many of their names and key attributes of events also appear in Bible accounts in some twisted form.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah_claimants#1st_century

  • Jesus (ca. 4 BCE - 30 CE), in Galilee and the Roman province of Judea. Jews who believed him to be the Messiah were the first Christians, also known as Jewish Christians. It is estimated that there are 2.5 billion Christians in the world today, [6] making Jesus of Nazareth the most widely followed Messiah claimant. In addition to Christians, Muslims also regard Jesus ('Isa) as the Jewish messiah.
  • Judas of Galilee (6 CE), Judas led a violent resistance to the census imposed for Roman tax purposes by Quirinius in Iudaea Province around 6 CE. The revolt was crushed brutally by the Romans. [7]
  • Menahem ben Judah (?), the son or grandson of Judas of Galilee, was a leader of the Sicarii. When the war broke, he armed his followers with the weapons captured at Masada and besieged Antonia Fortressin Jerusalem, overpowering the troops of Agrippa II in Judea and forcing the Roman garrison to retreat. Emboldened by his success, he behaved as an "insufferable tyrant", [8] thereby arousing the enmity of Eleazar, the Temple Captain and de facto a rival Zealot rebel leader, who had him tortured and killed. [9] He may be identical with the Menahem ben Hezekiah mentioned in the Talmud (tractate Sanhedrin 98b) and called "the comforter that should relieve".
  • Theudas (?-46 CE), a Jewish rebel of the 1st century CE, at some point between 44 and 46 CE, Theudas led his followers in a short-lived revolt. Some writers are of the opinion that he may have said he was the Messiah. [10]
  • Vespasian, c.70, according to Flavius Josephus [11]
  • John of Gischala (? after 70), was a leader of the Jewish revolt against the Romans in the First Jewish-Roman War, and played a part in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70CE. [12]

  If you believe Josephus why wont you believe his own opinion that Vespasian was not the Messiah. After all he actually and established a kingdom of peace on earth before the generation of Christs in 30s died out. You might not be aware but there were mamy rebel grous who went about killing other Jews for collaborating. These rebels and their troubles are what caused the Romans to come and destroy jerusalem. Ultimately the Romans were sick of the Jews and their belief and false messiahs who tried to rebel.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicarri

  Sicarii (Latin plural of Sicarius "dagger-men" or later contract-killer, Hebrew ????????) is a term applied, in the decades immediately preceding the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE , (probably) to an extremist splinter group [1] of the Jewish Zealots , who attempted to expel the Romans and their partisans from Judea using concealed daggers ( sicae ). [2]

  If you want to quote Pliny, Suetonius, Josephus or Taciticus quote the text here and show us how the text can only point to Jesus of the Gospels. None of these writers knows anything about Jesus. No Bethlehem, apostles, resurrection, Bethlehem, death of infants, miracles, riding a donky into jerusalem, money lenders inciddent in the temple, etc.
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  mP

  More messiahs, and guess what they were called Messiah and Jesus because those titles applied to them. They were chosen b their followers, and they were trying to save.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants

  • Simon Magus (early 1st century), he was Samaritan, and a native of Gitta; he was considered a god in Simonianism; he "darkly hinted" that he himself was Christ, calling himself the Standing One.
  • Dositheos the Samaritan (mid 1st century), he was one of the supposed founders of Mandaeanism. After the time of Jesus he wished to persuade the Samaritans that he himself was the Messiah prophesied by Moses. [12] Dositheus pretended to be the Christ (Messiah), applying Deuteronomy 18:15 to himself, and he compares him with Theudas and Judas the Galilean. [12] [13]
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  Larsinger58

  The records confirm that Josephus, over the years, was edited and revised. Just what was the original Josephus is a matter of debate.
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  Jeffro

  And the claim the Antiquities of the Jews were written four hundred years later and by a different person ?

  There was no claim that the Antiquities of the Jews as a whole were written four hundred year later. The interpolated passage in question is commonly said to have been written later, in the fourth century.

  Josephus wrote about the various Jewish Wars in the 70s AD, but his other works were later.

  Please get your facts straight.