Ouate de phoque...only Frenchies will figure out this one.
Canada To Let Quebec Go?
by metatron 82 Replies latest jw friends
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zed is dead
NVR,
I don't speak French, but that sounds dirty.
zed
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Lady Lee
Lived in Montreal for 39 years
sammieswife - we could be related. My family goes back to some of the early Montreal settlers in the late 1500s
Few people realize that when you go to Quebec all employees in service industries MUST address you first in French. Only if you respond in English can they switch languages. Computer software must be in French only. Movies cannot be released in Quebec until a French translation can be made available. Immigrants who choose to stay in Quebec cannot send their English speaking children to English schools unless they can afford to send them to private schools. French speaking children are not permitted to go to English schools. As an English speaking person I had to get papers from the government to prove I had gone to English schools so that I could send my children to an English school.
A vast number of English speaking people had left the province which is probably why they separation vote was so close.
One of the complaints of the French population is that they cannot get jobs if they leave the province of Quebec. I found it odd then that when I moved from Quebec to Manitoba I had to get my driver's record. The person in a government office in Winnipeg phoned Quebec to get my records. She initially spoke in French tot he person on the other end of the line. When she realized that person could not speak English the woman in Manitoba immediately switched to fluent French. OK so it is one example. But if you went into any government office in Manitoba you would see huge signs saying services were provided in both languages. I couldn't get that kind of service anywhere in Quebec.
Shortly after I arrived in Winnipeg I went to the zoo. I heard French spoken all around me. I heard it where I worked, on the streets, in offices and shopping malls. French was everywhere. In fact Winnipeg Manitoba has the highest French speaking community outside of Quebec (St. Boniface) Most stores are bilingual, services are bilingual, signs are bilingual. Any French speaking person who went there would have everything they wanted. I could go into any hospital and receive services in either language. Heck they even have their own hospital, St. Boniface, which I went to and heard both languages being used.
My mother's family comes from northern Ontario. She did not even know or speak English until she left home and moved to Toronto. Due to the exodus in the late 70s many French speaking people left Quebec to get better jobs across Canada. Many moved to Toronto. I went to visit a friend who had moved there. She was bilingual. She said almost the first person she talked to was her upstairs neighbors -2 French guys.
As much as the powers-that-be in Quebec have tried to keep the French people down by limiting their education, they have failed. The French are leaving - no jobs. Learn English go anywhere. Now that might seem like the opposite of what I just said above but we live in a global economy. The more languages you know the more opportunity to you.
Quebec is a dictatorship. If you look at how they control people, lie to them, deprive certain people of basic human rights then they are no different than any totalitarian group. This one happens to be political and I am damned glad to be out of there.
I now live right across the border and if I look over the top of my computer monitor I can see Quebec on the other side of the river. But we are miles apart in ideology.
Will they leave Canada? They can't. Financially it would be their downfall. What they want however is a divorce where the spouse with the bucks keeps paying alimony in ever increasing amounts
The US would not put up with their nonsense and about the only thing the US gets from them is hydro-electric power. They have nothing else to offer but demands to be treated special.
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prologos
Lady Lee, all what you say might be TRUE, then again there is a street in New Orleans called "Grand Menteur" . (not named after YOU)
I heard Quebec forbids others to work in their territory but is an exporter of labor. federal money build them an airport (Mira-bel)?
I hear across that river you look, there are all federal offices in le Royaume du calcium?
If they worked hard, they could be a very viable country with their own iranian style nuclear program, a vast territory. bigger than most nations.
with their enclaves in Hollywood FL. they could even have their very own branch/ bethel, --- apostate QC -- TJ.net
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Lady Lee
Gatineau which the city across the river in Quebec has CANADIAN flags flying on amm gov't buildings I see more Canadian flags flying across the river than I saw in all my years living in Montreal
I am told that if Quebec ever does leave western Quebec will opt out and stay in Canada.
Mirabel is Quebec's white elephant - an airport that never took off (excuse pun) Eventually it closed down to all passenger flights and now is used for cargo - at least the last time I heard. It was a disaster from teh very beginning requiring a highway to be built for all the supposed traffic that would come their way. it never happened.
Quebec's nuclear power (yes they have 2 plants)
Gentilly Nuclear Generating Station (Centrale nucléaire de Gentilly in French) is a Canadian nuclear power station located on the south shore of the St. Lawrence River in Bécancour, Quebec , 100 km north east of Montreal.
The Gentilly site contains the only nuclear power reactors in Quebec [note 1] and comprises two nuclear reactors; Gentilly-1, a 250-MW CANDU-BWR prototype, was marred by technical problems and shut down in 1977, and Gentilly-2, a 675-MW CANDU-6 reactor operated commercially by the government-ownedpublic utility Hydro-Québec between 1983 and 2012.
The Gentilly reactors were constructed in stages between 1966–1983 and were originally part of a plan for 30-35 nuclear reactors in Quebec. [1] [2] A third reactor, Gentilly-3, was scheduled to be built on the same site but was cancelled because of a drop in demand growth in the late 1970s. [3]
On October 3, 2012, Hydro-Québec CEO, Thierry Vandal announced his intention not to proceed with the refurbishment of the Gentilly-2 facility and its closure on December 28, 2012 for economic reasons. At that time, a decommissioning process will proceed over a period of 50 years and is expected to cost $1.8 billion. [4] The permanent shut down and decommissioning of the power plant follows an election pledge from Quebec's newly appointed premier, Pauline Marois. [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentilly_Nuclear_Generating_Station
Another well-thought out plan from Quebec
Most of Quebec's power comes from water. It is a water rich province - hence hydro-electric power they can sell to the US
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mamochan13
Lady Lee, you have expressed it very well. That's exactly how many of us in the west see it, too. All of Canada is bilingual except Quebec.
Without getting into a whole other debate, I do see similarities with some of the demands of First Nations people. We recently had a native leader go on a hunger strike, insisting on government concessions and native self-government rights among other things. Unfortunately, she herself is one of the worst offenders, drawing a giant salary while leaving her people living in poverty. Huge government handouts do not help the rank and file. It's interesting that Lady Lee has pointed out how the average Quebecer has been kept under control. I thought that was only true of the Duplessis years, but on reflection - it is continuing.
Part of the dilemma, I guess, of building a nation is finding a way to blend different cultures successfully without assimilating them. I would argue that Newfoundlanders have just as distinct a culture as Quebec - including a unique language. I think the same is likely true of other provinces. And yes, it is true that Quebec is not the only province that receives a disproportionate share of federal money. They are just the ones that complain the most about not getting enough. The divorce analogy is right on.
I think the U.S. has done a much better job at keeping a diverse group of states united. We still have too many Canadians who want the Canadian passport and all it brings without having to do the work of being Canadian.
I'm not sure what to make of Mulcair's role in all this. I voted for the guy as NDP leader, but I don't support this legislation he's bringing forward.
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Lady Lee
My father was a Newfie. I wouldn't say that he spoke another language. Rather is is a form of English that blends a lot of Scottish and Irish. Being an island that only joined Canada in 1949 they have remained pretty isolated although many of the young people leave as soon as they can to find jobs somewhere else. My fahter and some of his cousins were among those young people who left.
You could say the same about New Brunswick or Nova Scotia and the Acadian language probably a blend of the above 2 along with French.
I remember listenign to my mother and grandmother speak to each other. They had this liquoid way of blending both languages into a sentence which is weird when you think about it because the syntax is different for each language. My grandmother had a French accent when she spoke English and they would start a sentence in French, switch to English for a few words and then back again. I know many French and English speaking Canadians who communicate this way in informal settings. It is interesting to listen to and I guess I do it too when I am stuck finding the right French word.
Most of my education was in Toronto and French was not on the curriculum until grade 7 or 8. But the year before that I had spent living with my mother and grandmother and my 3 u8ncles and an aunt and I had taken French in school one year. (I failed French that year because everyone else already had 3-4 years of French. Then I went back to Toronto and passed the French clesses with ease.
But speaking French is a challenge to me. Shortly after I moved to Quebec (I was 12 yrs old) my mother sent me to the store to buy milk or bread. The store owner started yellign at me and threw me out of the store for not speaking French. That experience really traumatized me. Although I can manage to read French relatively well, speaking it to some one in Quebec was extremely difficult. In college I took course and was able to pass them but put me in a real situation and forget it. I can't think of the words.
Before I moved away form Montreal in 1999 it was hard to find work in any government service.I worked on my own for many years.At that time a tourist who stayed in the tourist areas could get service in English. But I have had a lot of people, including both my daughters who say that the atmosphere has gotten much worse in the lkast few years. Even the tourists are treated badly and refused service if they only speak English. That is no way to increase the economy that you might attract through tourism.
If you travel to any town over 200 miles from Montreal you will find communities of exclusively French speaking people. Most people think that if Quebec leaves the whole west side of the province (Montreal-Oka-Gatineau/Hull) will refuse to separate. I don't think I have ever heard what this rather large area will do. Join Ontario? Create their own little province?
When you talk about distinct societies I would say the native population is far more distinct but so is Nunavit which has finally become a province and the Northwest Territories and the Yukon. The entire northern part of Canada is extremely distinct. We actually know very little about it. The closest I came was speaking with people from the reservations that had to be flown to Winnipeg for health reasons and stayed in the honeless shelter where I worked.
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NVR2L8
Zed is dead: ouate = cotton ball, de = of, phoque = seal, no special meaning, but when pronounced in French it sounds exactly like What The F**k.
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NVR2L8
I usually stay away from this type of debate but when I read some of the comments made by Lady Lee, Talesin and Mamochan13 I completely understand why Quebec “the shit-stain of Canada” needs laws to protect their language and culture against assimilation. I was born and raised in Montreal and I have been living in Ontario for well over a decade where I am glad not to have to express where I stand on the sovereignty issue daily.
Here are a few comments that really bother me.
Quebec is a dictatorship. If you look at how they control people, lie to them, deprive certain people of basic human rights then they are no different than any totalitarian group. This one happens to be political and I am damned glad to be out of there.
Totally untrue. The very fact that Quebecers can debate and vote in a referendum on separation is the proof that democracy works. In several Eastern European countries the very same issues resulted in wars and ethnic cleansing. I have yet to find anyone being deported from Quebec for voicing diverging political views and I have not found concentration camps for the evil "anglophone". Lady Lee even admits she was free to leave, although some of her basic human rights may have been baffled...I know French-only signage is such an annoyance...almost as bad as Chinese-only signage in Richmond BC or English only signs in the rest of Canada...I am also glad that she has found refuge in a province that uses the same form of government as Quebec.
I would argue that Newfoundlanders have just as distinct a culture as Quebec - including a unique language.
Another well documented comment here… and I guess the language you are referring to is Newfieneese. Along with First Nations and Britain, France is a founding nation of Canada and Quebecers have every right to preserve their distinct identity and language. Without a legal framework the French minority would simply vanish. Acadians had to flee to New Brunswick and as far as New Orleans to avoid religious persecution and save their culture and they have to constantly battle to remain a people. It is no different for Quebec.
It's interesting that Lady Lee has pointed out how the average Quebecer has been kept under control. I thought that was only true of the Duplessis years, but on reflection - it is continuing.
The average Quebecers was kept under control by the Catholic Church which in turn was in bed with Duplessis. For good French-Canadian Catholics sex was for procreation only which explains the very large families and the end result was that, except for one child who may become a priest or doctor, every other child would receive very little instruction. English-Canadian who were in majority protestants had smaller families and children benefited from a better education. With time English-Canadians held most of the managing jobs while less educated French-Canadians were mostly labourers. That slowly started to change in the 1960’s during “La révolution tranquile” of Jean Lesage. The Catholic Church gradually lost its hold on the population and, with smaller families, more of the children were able to pursue their education. Big money was no longer accessible by English-Canadians only. Today government and Church are totally separated and even school boards are non-denominational . The very fact that Quebec wants to attain independence is the evidence of a people fully emancipated.
Thank you jgnat for the charts...Quebec is not such a moocher after all!