Sorry for how long this is but I just had to share...

by dazed but not confused 37 Replies latest jw friends

  • dazed but not confused
    dazed but not confused

    This first post will be a letter from my friend who hasn't spoken to me since I told him nearly a year ago I was no longer a Witness. Name not included. Again sorry its so long. The second post will be my response.

    Hey Buddy. I've been wanting to talk to you real bad about some stuff. I haven't because it's just kinda painful. But here it goes. I HAVE to start off by apologizing. I am super super sorry that I wasn't there for you when I should have been, several years ago when you were having a terrible time with your drinking. I never knew you had a problem until the cabin and then I just didn't know how to help. It was a BIG mistake not reaching out to you to help. I honestly didn't know IF you really needed help and how much and figured that if you did, you humble yourself, and ask for it. But I should have been more assertive and checked up on you. Truth is, that I was kinda battling with the same thing in a way. Anyway, I'm VERY SORRY I wasn't there for you like I should have been. I just want to let you know that it kills me that you have changed so much. I know you're still (myname) but your views are getting so abscured. I want to let you know that if I didn't love you the way I do, and as much as I do, I woulnd't bother with this and waste my time. Truth is, you have always been one of my best friends and NO MATTER WHAT, I will always love you like a brother......the punk brother that you are. But I must say a few things. You made a comment to me about how upset you were at your mom for raising you the way she did, as on of Jehovah's people. That hurts me for many reasons. 1st off, you should have enough heart to realize how incredibly hard it would be in this ever declining, screwed up world to raise children on her own. She did what she thought was best for you. Gave you something to hope in, love, brought in to enjoy many friends who strive to be good people and honest citizens. And raised you to be the man you are now. You love your family, treat your wife with love and respect, give all to your kids, etc. because of the person that your mom taught you to be. You made a comment to me that even though you didn't believe in Jehovah anymore, that you were still a good person, loyal to your wife and kids. Well who do you think taught you those wonderful qualities? Worked on them with you for years? Your mom, through the teaching she recieved through the Bible and God's organization. So why be mad at your mom. She NEVER forced you to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. That was your EDUCATED decision. You made a vow, oath, promise, to serve mankind's creator. And the love you have for your amazing wife.....why do you love her SO much? Isn't a lot of it her qualities? Who do you think inbedded those into her? Raised her to be who she is now, that you so much love? Jehovah's people. Those aren't normal traits that you can find in people today. I know that the congregation that you were in before wasn't supportive according to what you've tould me. But you have to be willing to be helped and loose the pride, display humility and meekness in order for someone to help you. Maybe they didn't know if you really needed much help or that you wanted it??? I am one of your best friends and you never talked to me about it. I also told you that some of Tri-Cities and your old congregation there were way different than what I've experienced. They seemed more cold, distracted, some were more about hemselves, etc. That doesn't mean that that's how the whole organization is. It's not. But you have to put yourself out there to see it all and be patient. There is nearly 8,000,000 Jehovah's Witnesses from ALL SORTS of backgrounds. I was raised a Catholic until I started learning Bible Truths when I was 15. I looked into many other possibilities, until I COULDN'T prove this one wrong. Out of the 8,000,000 are ones who have studied DEEP into other religions, man's philosophies, atheism, etc. They have dug DEEP DEEP. Spent decades on in. You have to realize that most of Jehovah's Witnesses were not raised that way. These are people who have experienced many different ways and philosophies of life. After searching EVERY possibility, using soundness of mind and reasoning, and common sense, conclude that there MUST be a creator who is loving. Your searching in the wrong books my friend. Can you logically say that all 8 MILLION of us are THAT stupid? Do you think we or just I, enjoy going to other peoples houses to talk to them about these things? I like tatoos A LOT, smokin weed, would enjoy the challenge of getting rich by spending a lot more time working as a GM at the restaurant and start opening my own, have a big beard, cuss, crazy hair, etc etc....... Give my hard earned money and time repeatedly.Do you think that I would refrain from theses things just because I had some hunch or if just POSSIBLY the things I studied were true? And what about ALL those other ones sacrificing there time and resources? We would be FOOLS! I wouldn't make such sacrifices unless I was 100% sure that this was the Truth. I wouldn't be worth it. NO ONE can and has EVER proven the things in the Bible to be not true. On the contrary, MOST (so far) have been proven and confirmed through archeological findings, other writings, caninicity, etc. And other philosophies have been either proven wrong, or CAN'T BE PROVEN RIGHT. Whereas the opposite is true with the Bible. I love you man and again, I always will. Don't be blind. Realize that millions of other GOOD, PEACEFUL, HARD WORKING, HONEST, GIVING, LOVING people have educated themselves in many other teachings and have all come up with the same proof of things. PLEASE DON'T ABANDON YOUR FRIENDS, YOUR FAMILY, AND YOUR GOD. I love you man.

  • dazed but not confused
    dazed but not confused

    My response.

    Hey (friendsname). Thanks for your letter and your concern. I want to start this off by telling you that you have nothing to apologize for. We both grew up and grew apart. You with your family and me with mine. There would be no way of you knowing how big of a problem alcohol was for me over the last 10 years. I have good news about that too. As of December 3 rd I am 2 years sober without a single drop. I didn’t want to admit I had a problem with it for many years. And when I did finally admit it to myself, it still took many years and attempts to quit. It wasn’t until I realized that I didn’t want to become my dad whom I have no respect or love for because of abandoning his 3 kids and having no hand in raising us. He loved his alcohol and cigarettes more than his own flesh and blood.

    My mom did her best in raising me. And I love her very much. What I meant when I told you that I was upset with the way I was raised, it was not with her. It was being raised not to think for myself. We are raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses in an extremely isolated environment. I was never allowed to have any friends unless they were Jehovah’s Witnesses. We are raised to believe that we have the one and only true religion. Anyone not turning to Jehovah and becoming a witness before Armageddon will die in Armageddon. Nearly 7 billion people will die because they either never learned about him or turned away from him. Can you honestly say that you believe this is a loving god, a god who will let billions of babies, children and young adults die because their parents never became Jehovah’s Witnesses? Or what of the millions of Muslims who are raised in their faith never learning about Jesus or Jehovah? Of the over 4200 religions you believe you have the one true religion. Of the 3000+ gods that are worshipped you believe you have the one true god to serve. You are an atheist with regards to these 3000+ other gods and I am an atheist to the 3000+ gods and one more. We are not that different.

    There is a good reason why the 8 governing body members don’t want Jehovah’s Witnesses to get a college education, going as far as calling higher education demonic recently. They don’t want their followers having critical thinking skills. They don’t want you thinking for yourself. Read, listen and obey what the Watchtower and Awake tell you to believe.

    You are right that my mom never forced me to be a witness. It was all I knew so I became one.

    You said, “I honestly didn't know IF you really needed help and how much and figured that if you did, you humble yourself, and ask for it.” I did this about 5 years ago. You know what I got? My “privileges” taken away. Nothing more. No encouragement, no love, no help. Why would I ever want to try to get help from these people who didn’t care enough about me? John 13:35 “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” So I struggled with this for another 3 years. Then I sobered up for 7 months, but all the while (mywife) would drink around me, even when I would tell her that I am going to start drinking again because I couldn’t be around her drinking and not drink. For 7 months she did this and when I would catch her drinking she would laugh and say something like “I didn’t think you’d see me.” Well, I drank for about 5 days and got fall down drunk after 7 months of sobriety. (mywife) then went to the elders without talking to me about anything. I felt betrayed by her doing this and left her. I told her that I can’t be with someone who drinks. Me leaving shocked her so much that she promised me she would never drink again if it meant loosing me. And she never has. So, what did the elders do? Because my drinking and getting drunk wasn’t known by a lot of people in the congregation, but known by a few they decided after a Judicial Committee to publicly reprove me. At the time I felt “Good. For sure NOW they will help me and I will get back on track.” You know what they did for me? How they helped me? I was expecting these strong in the truth elders would take me under their wing and encourage me, invite me out in service or to their homes to encourage me. You know what they did? Nothing. Not a damn thing. I asked for my “privileges” back about 6-7 months latter and they said “With all you are doing, service and meeting attendance there will be no problem with this.” A few months latter there was no word on weather I got any of the “privileges” back. With all this I decided that there is no way this is Jehovah’s appointed organization. Then I opened Pandora’s Box and looked into the history of this religion and its ever changing beliefs. I did the “INDEPENDENT” research that the Watchtower society frowns upon. There is good reason why they do this. There are so many holes in their teachings that they cannot keep afloat.

    You said “Those aren't normal traits that you can find in people today.” When referring to worldly people. This is something the society wants you to believe and something I believed too for so many years. There is so much love and kindness from my “worldly” friends. People are not as evil and bad as the society wants you to believe. When you came to be a Witness at 15, I can see from your perspective people in the “world” are all bad all the time. Kids at that age are selfish and self centered. Once you make friends with people in the “world”, you will find that they are not all bad. Not even nearly as close as the society would have you believe. There is a sense of security being among people who think, act and believe the same thing. But now I have taken off my blinders and see people in the world are much nicer and better then the society wants you to think. I love you so much and value our friendship. But I cannot and will not be apart of a religion that will tear apart families and friends because of a difference of opinion. The only thing that has change with me is my point of view. Since I have left a year ago, my depression has completely left me. My marriage has never been better and my wife has never been happier to be with me. The new friends I am making are great and there is no undue judgment on their part because I may believe something different from them.

    You seem to be making a lot of excuses for the way I was treated by many in my different congregations through the years. Justifying it in some way to rationalize it to yourself. I want nothing more than for you to become a free thinker and start thinking for yourself. Not letting the society tell you how to think, act or feel. I wish you could see what I see but you have to be willing to be honest with yourself and open that box and start thinking on your own. I know I may be asking too much because of how comfortable it is “knowing” you have the truth. But so does nearly every other religious zealot.

    I haven’t tried to contact you much since the last time we talked because I could see how much it hurt you that I was no longer a witness. I didn’t and don’t want to offend you. I am the same person I have always been, just no longer in a dazed trance. I lost my faith long ago and refuse to put blind trust and faith in a god who allows babies and children to be raped, tortured and murdered on a daily basis. There is no way of knowing or even simply proving that any type of god exists. I hope I am wrong. If god does exist, he sure has a lot of explaining to do. I don’t think that you or nearly 8 million people are that stupid, just in a trance that thousands are coming out of every year. All the people that do come out want just one thing, we want people to learn the TRUTH about the TRUTH. I have never abandoned friend or family member. I am giving those of my friends some space so that I don’t accidentally offend them. I will always be here for you. You can call me any time to talk about anything you’d like. I love you too man.

  • dazed but not confused
    dazed but not confused

    He is the one friend that I care most about being free.

  • Yan Bibiyan
    Yan Bibiyan

    Can you logically say that all 8 MILLION of us are THAT stupid? Do you think we or just I, enjoy going to other peoples houses to talk to them about these things? I like tatoos A LOT, smokin weed, would enjoy the challenge of getting rich by spending a lot more time working as a GM at the restaurant and start opening my own, have a big beard, cuss, crazy hair, etc etc....... Give my hard earned money and time repeatedly.Do you think that I would refrain from theses things just because I had some hunch or if just POSSIBLY the things I studied were true? And what about ALL those other ones sacrificing there time and resources? We would be FOOLS! I wouldn't make such sacrifices unless I was 100% sure that this was the Truth. I wouldn't be worth it. NO ONE can and has EVER proven the things in the Bible to be not true. On the contrary, MOST (so far) have been proven and confirmed through archeological findings, other writings, caninicity, etc. And other philosophies have been either proven wrong, or CAN'T BE PROVEN RIGHT.

    Here is your key.

    He is actually affraid that he could be wrong.

    Ask him to drop the generalities and research an confirm at least ONE thing of the diatribe above.

    There are so many logical fallacies up there, starting with Argumentum ad populum, that is not even funny. And he starts with "Can you logically say..."

    EDIT: If presented with the "8 Million JW's can't be wrong", you can say " Then 2 billion Muslims could absolutely NOT be wrong"?

  • dazed but not confused
    dazed but not confused

    Yan - Yeah. I started my first letter picking apart every thing he wrote. Then I stopped and decided not to pick on him. The thing is we live 26 hours apart. If I could see and talk to him daily, I might be able to get him to think logically and for himself.

  • dazed but not confused
    dazed but not confused

    Argumentum ad populum-

    In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so."

    wow thats great. I have never heard of it. thanks

  • Yan Bibiyan
    Yan Bibiyan

    I understand, I also have the urge to pick things apart sometimes.

    Frustrating, man, I know.....

  • dazed but not confused
    dazed but not confused

    When he is referring to the “cabin”, its when I and all 7 “witness” friends were there a few years ago getting drunk and being stupid. I wanted to point out what a bunch of hypocrites he, and we all were. All of us were witnesses at the time and we were all cussing and drinking to the point of drunkenness and throwing up. We were there for 5 days carrying on this way. But he never had a problem with this hypocrisy.

  • dazed but not confused
    dazed but not confused

    Or the 2 occasions we huffed gas when we were 17.

  • dazed but not confused
    dazed but not confused

    He's been publicly reproved more than once and DF'd once. I would think he of all my friends would be open to thinking out side the BORG

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit