kn: well i be damned, here i was thinking the reason rape was amoral had to do with traumatizing the victim, apparently i got that one wrong.
Who/what decides what is right and what is wrong?
by Knowsnothing 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
moshe
At one time the Bible said you could steal the women of conquered nations and force them to be your wife-- after a 30 day taming down process, to make it less cruel.
What is moral today, may become socially unacceptable later. Sometime leaders jump the gun and decide what's best for us anyway, like never telling an illegal immigrant he has to go home and can't take a job away from a US citizen. Like giving poor people free cellphones and telling the workers- hey, I need some of your hard earned dollars to pay for the cellphone for someone who hasn't earned his bread like you did. We're not taking your money, we're sharing it. See how much better that sounds?
-
NewChapter
Your internal moral compass called your 'conscience' (a forgotten word these days)
What makes you say this word and concept is forgotten, "these days"?
-
Knowsnothing
What is moral today, may become socially unacceptable later.
So basically, you're saying morality is based on the culture at the time, correct? There doesn't really seem to be this so-called greater good or evil, then. We are free to do as we choose, and we are free to accept the consequences the society we live in will bestow on us for our action/inaction.
More and more, morality just sounds like a power struggle for me.
-
snare&racket
Morals vary depending on era and region and history. There is no unified morals written in our innards, though there are natural restraints seen in ALL animals. Restraints that are there because it is beneficial that they are there.
John Nash came up with a math formulae called "Game Theory". What is good for the group is good for the individual, it is used in all sciences, paticularly economics. I use it often when discussing morals. Why be kind to an old person? One day we will be old. Why not steal? Would we want to be the victim of theft? etc etc.
As we evolved into groups we had to develop biological justice and urges. As much as a snake may inspire fear, despite never seeing one or ever being near one, so it is against our nature to..for example.. kill our own. This is not just human behaviour, pack animals in paticular have rules, lines of acceptance and punishments.
One thing I know for sure, morals did not come from any god that was willing to command or act out genocide, slavery, racism, sexism, incest, infanticide, blood sacrifice or eternal punishment, whether it be a hell or a lake of fire. Thankfully anyone can visit a history section in a library and see how these beliefs and ideas evolved through time and civilisation. The morals of a Greek worshiper of Zeus were very different to the morals of a moder day Muslim.
There is always grey areas in right and wrong. Right and wrong are arbitary concepts we have creted to explain decisions that are either beneficial for the group and individual or are not. Of course, some people and some religions, with selfish motives have hijacked these concepts. its right to pay them a tithe, its wrong to not contribute to the church roof... Its right to keep the church clean in appearance by hiding paedophiles, its wrong to publicly denounce the church by whistleblowing paedophiles etc etc etc
Of course these are just my musings, my intentions in searching out answers were 'good' though some will assume I am 'evil'. This is a true statement and both I and the offended reader will feel both opposing views on my reply. There is no finite definition of right and wrong. Just what is best...
Best for what? Survival and the passing on of genetic material..... woah mamma.
Like I said, just my musings.
-
james_woods
Each one has to decide this for himself - it is the long way of human self-consciousness.
-
snare&racket
100% agree James .... what a great way of putting it !
-
HintOfLime
"In olden days a glimpse of stockingwas looked on as something shocking.
Heaven knows, Anything goes."Times change, humans change. One has to let go of black and white, and grasp fluidity - morality is a human fashion. It is a part of our culture - a part of the amazing, ever changing human society.
- Lime
-
Etude
OK:
Rule No. 1: All of the above determine what is right and what is wrong.
Rule No. 2: When any of "all of the above" clash and contratict, the majority or the ones that can kick more ass and impose morality on others wins.
Rule No. 3: "So basically, you're saying morality is based on the culture at the time, correct?" and "Morals vary depending on era and region and history.": YES! It's called the "moral zeitgeist" and has been around since dirt. That's what made it OK for a Levite to cut up his wife in 12 pieces and parade them around Israel or for Lot to offer his daughters for rape in Sodom, or for women to be called "sluts" if they showed their ankles in public at the turn of the 20th Century but to be chick and wear dresses above the knee as "flappers" in the 1920s.
Rule No. 4: God (at least the one from the Bible) has been very inconsistent when it comes to morality. Therefore, ignore God on morality.
-
Knowsnothing
or for Lot to offer his daughters for rape in Sodom
Lot's daughters got him drunk to get pregnant...making them some what sluttish... there is no such thing as 'consenting rape', lol.