Proof of adultery no longer needed to be spiritually free to remarry

by WuzLovesDubs 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • WuzLovesDubs
    WuzLovesDubs

    So this is what my soon to be ex says to me today...the same person who is courting wooing and flirting with a sister and has been for a very long time even way before i told him i wanted a divorce. He tells me that they "dont spy on people any more to get proof" that my just telling him I did or him telling the elders that I did is "sufficient" for him to be free. He also said hes not allowed to talk to said sister any more because she is "spiritually free" but not divorced yet! And he was told it was inappropriate by the elders. Reallly? It took the ELDERS having to tell him that for him to STOP doing it? Or for him to f*king know it was inappropriate to basically CHEAT??? Hypocrite!!!

    Any elders out there have proof of the change to this "proof" policy?? Any have proof that it has NOT changed?

  • XBEHERE
    XBEHERE

    if he confesses to pornea with someone else then they will accept that, thats all they need acording to current standards. He can't just accuse you and be free if you deny it, they will not allow that since there is no proof. It will be a tricky situation and can cause many problems for the elders for sure. Bottom line is they need to have proof either by confession or witnesses.

  • sir82
    sir82

    What XBEHERE said. There is no change.

    In order to be "scripturally free" there has to be a confession of porneia or 2 witnesses.

    It sounds like your soon-to-be-ex is bluffing you.

  • blondie
    blondie

    There is an old QFR on this from 1977. I have seen elders argue back and forth on how this applies. But notice that it is an UNBELIEVING spouse is discussed. The one case I say this come up about 12 years ago was between jws that were both still jws but had gotten a legal divorce. The elders in both congregations and the CO at that time did not consider it applying.

    *** w77 10/1 pp. 607-608 Questions From Readers ***Questions From Readers

    My unbelieving husband admitted to me that he has another woman. Is his admission sufficient ground for a Scriptural divorce?

    In some cases if a Christian’s unbelieving mate admits to committing immorality, that would provide a Scriptural basis for a divorce, which, in turn, would free the innocent Christian for remarriage if desired.

    Jehovah God’s law to the ancient nation of Israel made provision for divorce on various grounds. (Deut. 24:1, 2) Adultery, homosexuality and bestiality were bases for ending a marriage; the guilty person was to be executed. (Deut. 22:22-24; Lev. 18:22, 23) However, the Law set forth this important requirement: “At the mouth of two witnesses or of three witnesses the one dying should be put to death. He will not be put to death at the mouth of one witness.” (Deut. 17:6; 19:15; Num. 35:30) Being a “lover of righteousness and justice,” Jehovah required that such matters be determined on the basis of proof, of witnesses, not merely suspicion. (Ps. 33:5) This, of course, was stated as regards applying the death penalty, not as regards a divorce action.

    Another situation dealt with in the Law also illustrates the importance of proof. What was a man to do if he suspected that his wife had committed adultery but she denied it and there were no witnesses? God’s law outlined a step that could be taken, but it was a drastic one that could have lasting effects for the wife if she was guilty or for the husband if she was innocent. She could be brought before the priest and made to share in a prescribed procedure involving drinking some special water. If she was guilty, she would experience the divine punishment of her ‘thigh falling away,’ apparently meaning that her sexual parts would atrophy and she would lose her ability to conceive. (Num. 5:12-31) Evidently in such cases the adulterous wife, though receiving this extraordinary punishment from God, because she denied guilt and there were not the required two witnesses, was not executed.

    What is the situation today in the Christian congregation? Is it possible to obtain substantial testimony as to the grounds for a Scriptural divorce?

    Jesus himself stated that for his followers the only ground for divorce, such as would free a person for remarriage, is if one’s mate commits porneia, gross sexual immorality. (Matt. 19:9) Would there be sufficient ground for divorce if a Christian wife merely suspected that her husband was guilty of adultery? No, for the Christian Greek Scriptures carry forward the principle of a matter’s being established by two or three witnesses, as a balanced sense of justice requires. (John 8:17, 18; 1 Tim. 5:19; Heb. 10:28) So, if a wife merely suspected her husband of adultery, but hedenieditandtherewerenowitnesses to confirm it, she would not have sufficient basis for establishing with the Christian congregation that she had a right to divorce him and thus be free to remarry.

    In some cases, though, an unbelieving mate admits to being immoral. A husband, for instance, might even boast of it to his wife as a taunt to hurt her. She might choose to overlook his waywardness. But what if she feels she cannot or should not? Is his confession enough proof?

    In this situation it is not as if he professes innocence or adamantly denies being guilty of adultery. Rather, he admits it to her, though for the sake of his reputation he might not be willing to own up to it in a court of law or before other persons. What can the wife do?

    Since she is part of the clean Christian congregation, she should realize the importance of handling the matter properly so that, after divorcing him, if she later remarried there would be no question about her keeping ‘the marriage bed without defilement.’ (Heb. 13:4) To that end she could give the elders representing the congregation a letter outlining her situation, stating that her unbelieving husband confessed to her that he had committed immorality. And she could state that in accord with Matthew 19:9 she wishes to put him away, obtaining a legal divorce and thus ending the marriage Scripturally and legally.

    The elders would consider whether there is any known reason to conclude other than that the unbelieving mate had been immoral. If not, they could accept her signed statement.

    ‘But,’ someone might say, ‘is it not possible to submit a deceptive, untruthful statement, saying that her husband confessed immorality when he actually never said that?’ Actually, it would be gross deception for anyone to try that. David once prayed: “You have examined my heart, you have made inspection by night, you have refined me; you will discover that I have not schemed.” (Ps. 17:3) Conversely, Jehovah is well aware when someone does scheme and He will make sure that the person does not lastingly succeed. Hence, if a Christian woman goes on record as stating that her husband has admitted immorality, Jehovah knows the facts. As the Bible says: “There is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting.”—Heb. 4:13; Prov. 5:21; Jer. 16:17.

    So if there is no reason to doubt the wife’s statement, the congregation elders can leave the matter between her and Jehovah. In that case she would have to bear before God the responsibility as to the actuality of her husband’s immoral course, which would be the Scriptural basis for ending the marriage even if the legal divorce were obtained on some other ground.

  • XBEHERE
    XBEHERE

    F rom new flock book, sorry I dont know how to paste properly.

    10. Scriptural freedom to remarry requires three

    conditions:

    por-nei'a;

    a rejection (refusal to reconcile)

    by the innocent mate; and a legal, final divorce.

    -Matt. 5:31, 32; 19:9; Heb. 13:4.

    11. If a dedicated Christian who accuses his believing

    mate of adultery and

    wishes to establish

    freedom to divorce and remarry

    approaches an

    elder, the matter should be referred to the body of elders.

    The accuser is not free unless the evidence establishing

    wrongdoing is sufficient to warrant the

    formation of a judicial committee. (Deut. 19:15; John

    8:17) If the accused mate is associated with another

    congregation, the evidence should be presented to

    128

    "Shepherd the Flock

    o f God”~ l Peter 5:2

    the elders of that congregation for review and a determination.

    The publisher should be advised

    that he

    is

    not to view himself as Scripturally free until the

    elders

    have investigated

    and guilt is

    established.

    12. In some cases adultery is not proved, but it is

    established by confession or by two or more witnesses

    that the mate stayed

    all night

    in the same house

    with a person of the opposite sex (or a known homosexual)

    under improper circumstances.

    The elders

    should carefully consider the situation. Were the individuals

    together

    all night? Were improper

    circumstances

  • blondie
    blondie

    Yes, officially the WTS says that sex can only happen at night and not during the day.

  • WuzLovesDubs
    WuzLovesDubs

    Thank you for the above. Can I get a clearer and more complete version of the shepherding book info? looks like its missing things. does it deal with the unbelieving mate being the accused?

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Were you ever a JW? Because if not, they don't need all that. It's enough for them if he claims you admitted it to him. I went through this whole scenario with myself, and someone that wanted to date me. I moved to the new cong without my soon-to-be ex hus. and they didn't know him or the details. Then I learned he had a girlfriend, and asked them if that would make me free. They asked if he was a JW (he was), so they said the 2 witness rule or confession applied. If he had not been a JW, then I would only have needed for him to admit it to me.

  • WuzLovesDubs
    WuzLovesDubs

    NC Im disassociated since 1997 and the dubs have been trying to hook him up since two minutes after it was announced.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    NC said:

    If he had not been a JW, then I would only have needed for him to admit it to me.

    And then you presumably would tell the elders of his confession, and they'd take this hear-say evidence based on your word (perhaps with a "cross your heart, hope-to-die Ananais and Sapphira style" pledge)? And then you'd be scripturally free?

    Wow, if that doesn't sound like a system with potential abuse built into it, LOL!

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