by minimus 306 Replies latest jw friends
The people that are trying to bring the Church down are not only shameless, but very dangerous.
They may hide behind different organizations, groups, etc to spread their hatred but their problem with the Church is that it is an obstacle (and a formidable one), for them to achieve total control of others and to impose their view of the world, where THEY are the gods.
Of course they have two big problems: they are only humans, and God does exist.
Oh so very true, apostatethunder.
Everyone wants to point out evils done by every type of religion, yet those who want a world without religions either play down or eliminate from memory all together the atrocities committed by the Godless men of the 20th century (Hitler, Stalin, Pot, Mao, etc.) who were responsible for the slaughter of hundreds of millions of people to reform society to their own standards. Whenever anyone wants to discuss the thousands killed, and crimes committed by any member of any church, first lets discuss what happens when man tries to run himself instead of submitting himself to our Blessed Lord and is responsible for the greatest, damnable crimes possible!
Bodies piled high or laid in ditches, buildings burnt to rubble, and entire countries under the thumb of one supreme dictator; these are the things Christianity in general protects the world from. More precisely, God protects man from himself, but when man throws out God, he also throws out God's protection.
The point of traditions and so forth are to get us in a place where we connect with God. Catholicism has some wonderful traditions although I agree some take them on a shallow level and the veneration of the saints and Mary goes a little too far in my opinion. Still, I do not dismiss the church on a whole because everything does not appeal to me.
"The Orthodox Churches here have married priests (both the Greek Orthodox and the Coptic (?) or Lebanese Orthodox churches), as do the Anglicans and Lutherans. They do JUST FINE taking care of their parishes, because they are PAID FULL TIME CLERGY, who are also given free housing as part of their salary. That is to say, professionals at what they do, who usually have a Master's degree in theology."
Diocesan Catholic priests are paid and given housing as well, so your point is(?). Catholic parishes are typically MUCH larger than a typical Greek Orthodox, Lutheran and Anglican paris. My own parish has approx. 3000 members, and we are among the samllest in our diocese. Some have as many as 15-20,000 or more. And it is a discipline based on scripture:
[11]Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. [12] For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.
Your insinuation that unmarried priests are the cause of the pedophilia in recent history in the Church is shallow. See Penn State. History has shown the vast majority of children that have this vile crime done unto them come from family members. Should we do away with the family unit then? Comparatively speaking, the public school systems show a higher frequency of these type of crimes taking place. Should we stop sending kids to schools? Common sense please.
The Catholic Church set the standard for studies in Theology and Philosophical thought for the Western world. Catholic clergy afterall are the ones that created the university systems as we know it today and the scholastic method. The Protestants would not know what a "Masters in Theology" would mean or how to obtain one if wasn't for the Catholic Church.
Isadore, it's not important to me that Rome stay part of the Orthodox Church or that the Anglican church stays part of the Orthodox Church. What is important is that the RC claims they are the trunk of the tree, when really they are the first branch. I mean, it's not seriously important, it's just something I didn't know until one of my Anglican priest friends told me and I looked into it.
Last spring we had an interfaith exercise going on around Grand Rapids. We had representatives of many faiths, including The Greek Orthodox Church, Jewish Studies professor from GVSU, a speaker on Buddhism, Hinduism and other churches come in each week to teach about their faith and answer questions. The Greek Orthodox speaker told of the history of the early Christian Church and how each country had a bishop that oversaw the church in his country. Rome had a bishop, too. And the Orthodox Church is still like this today. There is a Greek Bishop, A Russian Bishop and other bishops in other countries. The USA does not have its own Bishop YET. The Roman, or Western Church does not have a Bishop in the Orthodox Church since the Great Schizm. The Roman church eventually set up their bishop as Pope of their church. It's true that you do learn something new everyday.
I was raised in the Episcopal Church and I found my way back to the church in 2005. As I child I was a natural universalist. I am now a universalist. I view the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church as different paths to the same eventuality. One is not superior to the other. I feel most comfortable in the Episcopal Church. I feel almost as comfortable attending an RC church. The Episcopal Church has an open communion policy. The RC does not. So, unless I have a reason to attend the RC masses, I don't usually attend them. The Orthodox Church would be too much for me. They mix their wine with the bread and they serve it to everyone off the same spoon. They also have a closed communion.
The Episcopal Church believes every individual is on his or her own unique spiritual journey. Many, many of our priests are former Roman Catholic priests or members. I have been seeing a therapist for anxiety for a few years now. She is a Dominican nun. She was an engineer and then went on to get her doctorate in psychology. I love her for how much she has helped me, but also because she is a very forward thinking Roman Catholic. I can ask her questions about the history of the church or current day practices. She's a good source for accurate information. Also, at times I write Ask a Franciscan and get aswers to questions such as why is the RC communion closed, etc. Ultimately, I believe all of us are headed the same direction.
Talesin, there was a time I was ignorant as you are about this and condemned the Church in regards to this subject.
So did I, because I believed what the JWs had taught me on the subject. As it turns out, it was not true
They had us all snowed.
I'm greatful for the RC celibacy policy for one reason: we have a lot of great priests who have left the RC and are now Episcopalian. Father Mike at St. Pius fell in love with his wife and left the RC to marry her. Father Mic felt a strong calling his whole boyhood and then met his wife Paula at college. He was newly ordained in the Episcopal Church when I first met him at St. Mark's. I asked him should the RC ever allow priests to marry, would he return to the church and he told me no. He still does wear his Miraculous medal. Mother Val was RC, but left over the RC's policies on women. The Episcopal Church is happy to have her. She taught me how wonderful a woman priest can be in caring for a church and congregation. Our current Bishop was RC, but wanted to marry. I've met more Episcopal priests who were RC than I have met ones who were not.
About the birth control, there are millions of Roman Catholics all over the world who do abide by the Pope's orders. The sad thing is, a lot of them reside in 3rd world countries and cannot afford to have big families. Like it or not, the policy does affect women and children in the church. Sure, there are people who sidestep the policy, but there many who do not.
Isidore, it's not important to me that Rome stay part of the Orthodox Church or that the Anglican church stays part of the Orthodox Church. What is important is that the RC claims they are the trunk of the tree, when really they are the first branch. I mean, it's not seriously important, it's just something I didn't know until one of my Anglican priest friends told me and I looked into it.
This is a fairly reply by Anglican who try to rationalize that they are still part of the Apostolic succession. Of course a non-Catholic is going to amke this assertion. To do otherwise would give them a real intellectual dilemma.
The Roman church eventually set up their bishop as Pope of their church. It's true that you do learn something new everyday.
Did you bother to read the numerous accounts of Eastern (Orthodox) bishops that I cited above? Obviously not, because they debunk your revisionism history.
The Episcopal Church has an open communion policy. The RC does not. So, unless I have a reason to attend the RC masses, I don't usually attend them. The Orthodox Church would be too much for me. They mix their wine with the bread and they serve it to everyone off the same spoon. They also have a closed communion.
By receiving Communion, you are publically professing that you believe and and adhere to ALL of the teachigs of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Since you obviously don't, thank goodness you have not been given Holy Communion in the Catholic Church.
1 Corinthians 11
For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. [27] Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
What is it with former jw's who covert to another flavour of christian belief and denounce those who don't follow such a path?
They judge those who change completely and follow no religion as "wrong" or holding onto former beliefs somehow. "We were wrong about it once but now we've got it right and y'all are still jdubs at heart" Laughable
Personally, I really don't give a shit about any of it. Eh, whatever gets u thru the day.
Twitch, this thread was started against Catholicism, not by Catholicism against anyone.
What is it with former jw's who covert to another flavour of christian belief and denounce those who don't follow such a path?
This thread was started to attack Catholics. Is it so strange to you that Catholic XJWs try to defend themselves?
