I called Bethel about shunning family, unexpected response.....

by EndofMysteries 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    When you have a person's name, date, time, department, status at Bethel, agency for the GB, and Bethel confirmins the content of the conversation, I will be persuaded. Anonymous people cannot change policy. Loopholes and interpretations abound. They may have thought you were the New York Times or a REaders' Digest writer.

    I never ever met a Bethel official with this sophistacted take on disfellowshipping. Mennonites are cruel b/c they are NOT Jehovah's Witness. Actual practice matters. When people report here that actual practice in local kHs has fundamentally changed, I will accept this argument with pleasure.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    As Londo111 said, the Bethelite who answered your question over the phone had no idea whether he was talking to a "worldly" reporter or someone not brainwashed - er, in sympathy with - the Watchtower Society, so he would have been very careful to give the proper "legal" response.

    Behind the scenes, it's "business as usual" when it comes to shunning.

    Zid

  • 3rdgen
    3rdgen

    Iwantobelieve, Great answer!

  • steve2
    steve2

    Um, actually EndofMysteries I think it is you who misses the point of the PR drivel you swallowed and described as an "unexpected response":

    Human nature being what it is, ïndividual JWs relish opportunities to exercise their disapproval of others by citing conscience as the reason why they choose to shun them. For them the deliciously perfect line is something like,

    "I'm not shunning you because the faithful and discreet slave tells me I have to. I'm shunning you because I myself totally reject what you are doing". Slam.

    Who here hasn't been hit with that revolting statement in one form or another? Nothing new - nothing deceptive - nothing unexpected.

    The Watchtower Society simply tags something as a conscience matter, writes endlessly negative things about those who question Jehovah's loving arrangement and - bingo! - human nature kicks in and the rank and file savour opportunities to exercise their "Bible-trained" consciences.

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    If you are DF'ed or DA'ed (and I mean properly DA'ed through writing a letter yourself and it being announced) then the situation is that everyone should be shunning you with the exception of necessary family contact amongst family members. There is of course scope for "abuse" of this arrangement by family members hence the recent crackdown on this as per the WT article above.

    If you are not DF'ed or have formally DA'ed yourself then the situation is much more grey. There are some circumstances by which you can be considered having DA'ed yourself by your actions (taking blood, joining another religion or partaking in religious ceremonies/holidays, joining the army etc.) but if you have simply drifted away and not attended for a long time then you are not DF'ed or DA'ed.

    What does happen, however, is individual witnesses can then determine that they are going to shun you anyway and consider you as a DF'ed person. For example, if you were inactive for years and then started living with someone then self righteous witnesses who knew that may shun you out of their own volition. One family I know very well treated one of their sons as if they were disfellowshipped when he left the org and got a girlfriend in the world. He never lived with her but their open statement to all their kids were that if you leave the truth then that's how you will be treated. He was baptised but never DF'ed as he simply wanted out. He has, in the past 18 months, come back to the org. He had a JC but was never DF'ed, just put on restrictions.

    The reality is that being DF'ed, DA'ed or inactive are legalistic, procedural terms that in the most part have absolutely no scriptual backup. Elements of shunning do have some scriptual basis but the extent and context is clearly being overused by the WTS. I've tried arguing this in the past and have sucessfully used some aspects of the org's own rules against them to thwart bullying elders but overall it makes little difference. If someone wants to treat you badly whilst maintaining a self-righteous stance then they will, regardless of what the procedures, let alone Christ like love, suggest. As a currently active JW in good standing I have had to fight tooth and nail in the past to prevent injustices from my own BoE - as an inactive one displaying attitudes contary to those accepted by the org then you have little chance of winning.

    The point that has been made to me on this board several times now, however, is how much should you care....? it's their rules and if you are out then you have no obligation to accept them.

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    A year or so ago I was having a discussion with two elders, they were trying to readjust my thinking on a matter. We agreed it was a conscience matter ... I asked "then why are we discussing this?" basically he said, yes it is a conscience matter, but the principal is there and the Organization provides clear information in the publications ... for which I said, "then it isn't a conscience matter ... you are saying my conscience is coming to the wrong conclusion unless it makes the same decision your conscience makes" ...

    Basically ... I agree with others, you were given spin and double-speak, sure, you might be able to use it with your loved ones, I hope it works ... JW's pretend they don't know what the word "shun" means with regards to their actions.

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    Ha the good ole' conscience conundrum. As any questioning JW knows you can have any conscience you like as long it it's the same as Elder Bully's.

  • eva luna
    eva luna

    'the good 'ole conscience' my eye. I aggree

    JWs end up not developeing a thinking 'conscience'. They are constantly asking someone else how they should responed , even on the most trivial of matters.

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "When you call Bethal, they don't know who you are, they don't know if you are a jw, worldly, xjw, opposer, from press or what. ..."

    Whoops!!

    I meant, what Diamond Diz said about the Bethelite not knowing whether he was talking to a reporter or not...

    Especially post-$28million-lawsuit...

    Zid shedevil

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    As steve2 says E.O.M. is the one missing the point : As the watchtower pointed out ( in print ) any dedicated baptised jw who leaves the organization is "mentally diseased "and like all other contagious diseases such ones need to be avoided at all costs .

    smiddy

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