JT you said this would be your last post on this thread. Time will tell if that is true.
You then went on to say "Some posters, sadly, are so damaged from their experience they are unable to step back from the issue and look at the article objectively, factoring in the the context of when it was written (circa 2003), what secular programs were teaching at the time, etc. Instead, they chose to attack, but I understand that the attacks came from an emotionally painful place. I am so appreciative at moments like this that I was born an INTJ, which probably helped me to respond differently, because 'there, but for the grace of God, go I.'"
I am really glad you spelled it out so well for me. Now I get it. I am just so damaged that my simple mind just cannot grasp the thought of backing away and looking at the article objectively.
After all the article was written way back in the stone age of 2003 way before they had the modern enlightenment of today. Oh wait what about Dateline in 2002 and Barbara Anderson talking about pedophiles in the Jehovah's Witnesses. Ops that was a year before this enlightened book came out so what does that say about the book?
But after all as you pointed out I and Lady Lee are not a INTJ like you and so we are just not able to grasp things very well. After all I am still victim and you are a survivor as you posted here ( I am a survivor--not a victim--of childhood sexual abuse by a presiding overseer (I know that's the old term). Some people will always just be a victim and never get over their abuse and move on like those of you who have brains and are INTJ's but for the grace of God goes you. I just love psycho-babble.
Others of us mere mortars with not near the brain power of an INTJ like you will have to suffer our lives away damaged from being abused.
You know the thing is you assumed I hated what was written, that is not true. There was some of it that was OK. The picture is which I had made very clear was my main complaint. The picture has always freaked me out. I will never forget the assembly that the book came out at and I was with an elders wife. She got the book and was flipping through it sees the picture and pointed it out to me. She said that is so cool, look at that little girl fending off a child molester. I was speechless. I just sat there staring at the picture and I could not say a word. It just made me sick, the elders wife was just gushing over the picture and how great the GB was and how loving the GB was for putting in a picture like that for a child standing up for herself. I was thought I was going to throw up. My simple mind just cannot grasp a child alone in her bedroom fending off a child molester at that age. I just cannot wrap my mind around it no matter how hard I try. At times like this I truly wish I had a INTJ mind to do it because it just seems so crazy to expect a small child to tell an adult NO when she is alone in her bedroom.
Yes I think children should be told to tell on any adult that touches them, told that they have a right to tell but as for you saying that this book was "the book was written for parents to use to start discussions with children."
The book was written for parents? Where in the world did you get that from? It is clearly a children's book, it was released as a children book. Look at the first two pages the first one has a place to write your name and shows two little boys reading it and the second one shows a little girl reading it by herself. I have placed it door to door for children. How many adults do you know that read to their kids? Very few, most parents especially those we talk to door to door or so stressed out working and just surviving in this world that they will try to do anything to keep their kids out of their hair. We give parents the book door to door and suggest that they read it with their kids but most of the time it winds up the kids reading it alone. I was never read to as a kid and I was raised in the "truth". I read the Great Teacher Book on my own when I was seven as I felt quilted into it by one of the brothers who came by our home. He never told my parents to read to me just asked me as a kid why I had not read it myself. He told me Jehovah was not happy with me so I wanted to make Jehovah happy and I read it, I was so happy with myself once I read it thinking now Jehovah would truly love me now but nothing happened to show me Jehovah was pleased. My parents just kept on abusing me.
If I as a JW kid had that happen how many of the books that we place door to door wind up that way? Do we really want a kid on their own to read that "These people are selfish, like Satan and his demons. And they only want to get pleasure for themselves. And they try to get this pleasure by having sex with children. This is very wrong!" I was never taught that I had a vulva as a little girl. I did not know what the word meant. If I had asked my mom she would have yelled at me telling me I was saying a bad word. In a perfect world with a mom who was born an INTJ like you, yes it would be OK. But you see JT this is not a perfect world.
I did know what the word penis meant because I had seen my dad's from the first I could remember but so what.
It is just the way it talks about sex and throwing in Satan and his demons and the way they talk about rubbing their sex organs on the child or rubbing the child's sex organs is just off putting to me in my simple mind.
If I had a child I would want my child to think sex was a gift from God, something special and great, something to look forward to. But this book just makes sex seem dirty to me. It is not the way someone with my damaged mind wants my children to equate sex. I would never let my child look at this book.
I have read a lot about talking with children about the danger of pedophiles and yes to use the word penis and vulva is OK but it should be up to the parents to introduce the words not the WT.
I found your remark to Lady Lee so hurtful here (You simply made the fatal error of childishly assuming that I was unfamiliar with the subject merely because I disagreed with you.)
Really Lady Lee is childishly because she does not have your huge INTJ mind and disagrees with you?
You also made a fatal error toward me when you assumed that I just wanted to bring down the WT. There have been some great articles on child abuse written way before 2003 in the WT and Awakes such as the October 8 th Awake titled "The Innocent Victims of Child Abuse on page 3, A Time to Heal on page 7 of the same Awake, Help for the Victims of Incest in the WT of October 1 st 1983 and one I truly love is the Awake of October 8 th 1993 page 14 I will cut an past it here. There were all very great and well written.
ConsolingAdultSurvivorsofChildhoodTrauma
THEY were an outgoing young couple, highly respected in the congregation. But his tone was urgent when he asked if the elder would call on them, and she had tears in her eyes. She was suffering from episodes of severe depression and self-hatred, even thoughts of suicide. She had been sexually abused as a youngster. Thankful that Jehovah's organization has provided direction on how to help the victims of such crimes, the elder studied the Society's letters to elders as well as the October 8, 1991, Awake! articles and the October 1, 1983, Watchtower article that dealt with this subject. Here are a few useful points derived from these sources.
1.Listen,listen,listen. When a child skins his knee, his first impulse is to run to Mommy or Daddy for comfort. But an abused child may never even have had that option. So as an adult, he still has that same need-to tell, to talk it out, to be comforted by a sympathetic listener. (Compare Job 10:1; 32:20.) When the elder visited the couple mentioned above, the husband was surprised by how little the elder spoke and how much he listened. The husband, a very practical, helpful man, found that he had been trying to fix the problem by answering emotion with logic, trying to correct feelings that seemed irrational to him. He learned that his wife needed empathy more than answers. (Compare Romans 12:15.) She needed to hear that she had valid reasons for feeling the way she did.
2.Exposethelies. Abuse teaches children that they are dirty, unlovable, worthless. Like false religious doctrines, these ideas can make a healthy relationship with Jehovah very difficult. So expose the lies, and replace them with the truth-gently, repeatedly, patiently. Reason from the Scriptures. (2 Corinthians 10:4, 5) For example: "I understand that you feel dirty. But how does Jehovah feel about you? If he allowed his Son to die and provide a ransom for you, doesn't that mean he loves you? [John 3:16] In His eyes, did the abuse make you dirty, or did it make the abuser dirty? Remember, Jesus said: 'There is nothing from outside a man that passes into him that can defile him; but the things that issue forth out of a man are the things that defile a man.' [Mark 7:15] Did the abuse really issue forth out of you, a little child? Or did the abuser purpose it in his own mind?"
3.Speakconsolingly. Each individual is unique, so Paul's counsel to "speak consolingly to the depressed souls" applies differently in each case. (1 Thessalonians 5:14) Simplistic talk, however, rarely seems to console. For instance, merely telling an abuse survivor to read the Bible more, preach more, or 'just throw your burden on Jehovah'-helpful though these suggestions are at times-may not produce results. (Psalm 55:22; compare Galatians 6:2.) Many are already doing these things as best they can and berate themselves mercilessly for not doing better.-Compare 1 John 3:19, 20.
Similarly, telling abuse survivors simply to forget the past may do more harm than good. If they could do so, likely they would have-and would not have needed help to arrive at such a simple solution. Remember, theirs is a severe emotional trauma. For comparison's sake, just imagine coming upon a car crash victim lying moaning amid the wreckage. Would you just tell him not to think about the pain? Clearly, more is needed.
If you are not sure that what you are saying is consoling and helpful, why not ask the depressed one? After all, even counsel that is true and Scriptural needs to be timely and appropriate as well.-Compare Proverbs 25:11.
After a few visits, the sister began to see some improvement in her outlook, and her husband was better able to help her through the hard times. Both have since been able to speak consolingly to others who have been through similar traumas. How faith-strengthening to see Jehovah, "the God of all comfort," working through his Word and his people to "bind up the brokenhearted" in these troubled times.-2 Corinthians 1:3; Isaiah 61:1.
[Footnotes]
True, the apostle Paul did counsel Christians to 'forget the things behind.' But Paul was here referring to his former prestige and worldly success, which were now "a lot of refuse" to him. He was not referring to his past tribulations, of which he spoke freely.-Philippians 3:4-6, 8, 13; compare 2 Corinthians 11:23-27.
What I am confused about is if they could get it right in 1983, 1991,1993 why not now? Some of what they wrote way back then was actually cutting edge on helping those of us who were not lucky enough to be born INTJ's and are going to have to be victims for life because we were sexually abused.
A huge problem the elders are not trained and they do not want to be trained. I have begged the elders in different halls to just read the WT and Awakes that I just listed. I went and copied them for each of the elders. One CoBE looked at me and said why would I even want to read this? I am not joking he actually said that to me. I said because you expect me to take care of my parents and you do not believe I am in pain. He said I am just too busy to read this and threw it back at me. I said this is from the Faithful Slave he said he did not care he was not going to read it.
How do you reason with people like that? The elder was just frustrated with me, he did not want to deal with my parents as they were a huge brother to him and he demanded that I take care of them and since I was not obeying him he was pissed off at me.
If the elders will not even read what is in front of them from the Faithful Slave how can they ever help those of us who will remain victims for life as you have clearly said JT. No Lady Lee does not need a break from speaking out. That is what people want us damaged victims to SHUT UP and go away. Lady Lee made perfect sense and I am glad she is speaking out!
LITS
