Beliefs Tied to Geography (page 5)

flipper

OTWO- Very interesting reading all these comments. Many people say it's one OR the other parental upbringing OR geography. I see life in shades of gray and color. I say it's a combination of the two influences, geography AND parental upbringing AND social & peer influence from those actively in our lives. Perhaps MORE influences than that that I can't think of right now. Still 5 % dizzy from vertigo

SweetBabyCheezits

The existence of God is one you cannot disprove.

I would agree that the existence of god(s) - in the most generic sense - cannot be disproven anymore than the existence of a Lochness Monster can be disproven.

But primitive descriptions can (and should) be recognized as self-refuting based on semantics. For example, a god that demands to be loved and worshiped couldn't be described as truly perfect since that which is perfect, by definition, is complete and needs nothing. So which is it? Does he need our praise to be complete or is he perfect? Is it that humans have fouled God up with the constraints of language? Is he ineffable or not? Pick one.

On the other hand, many an atheist, including Dawkins and the late Hitchens, have conceded (without converting) that some sort of case could be made for Einstein/Spinoza's concept of god (pantheism) and even Thomas Paine's concept (deism).

But primitive man's gods are described in such detail that they're easily refuted by their own contradicting terms. They're square circles.

My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own image, to be servants of their human interests. -George Santayana, "On My Friendly Critics"

tec

So which is it? Does he need our praise to be complete or is he perfect? Is it that humans with their limited language have fouled God up?

Limited language and understanding, as well as lies.

Various intepretations of God can be refuted. Not proved wrong, but reasoned wrong, based on evidence. Which is why I mentioned 'interpretation' of evidence. Some interpret the evidence one way, and others another way.

As for God needing praise... he does not need our praise for him to be complete. We need to "worship" him (as in obeying his commands to love and serve one another), for us to be complete. God does not need anything from us. He gives TO us.

Peace,

Tammy

SweetBabyCheezits

As for God needing praise... he does not need our praise for him to be complete. We need to "worship" him (as in obeying his commands to love and serve one another), for us to be complete. God does not need anything from us. He gives TO us.

What's the greatest commandment again?

tec

Love God.

No different than Christ saying to love Him first. Because in that sense, if you love Him first, then you love others in the way that He loves others. Or if your parents teach you to hate a certain race of people, and you love God first... then you don't hate that race of people, because it is against God's teaching.

Loving God first is for our benefit.

Because HE wants us to love and serve one another.

Peace,

Tammy

ziddina

"You cannot disprove Him..." tec

Only between the ears of people who are desperately clinging to the concept of an invisible, non-interactive sky-daddy [or mommy], because they cannot accept two facts....

First, that death is our end.

Secondly, that we are absolutely "alone" in this. There is no amplified and extended psychic version of a "parent" that will rescue us from whatever unpalatable or downright dangerous situation that we might find ourselves in, whether due to our own ignorance and superstitious beliefs, or due to things beyond our control.

It takes a much higher level of courage to accept that we will cease to exist and that we are alone, and by accepting these things to live one's life effectively, making as much progress as possible in the limited time that one knows one has...

As opposed to those who rely on what is basically a figment of their imagination to whitewash or allay the realities of life, and who frequently attempt to coerce, intimidate or even force others to agree with their delusions, no matter how "politely" or "respectfully" done.

EntirelyPossible

You know, I didn't pray get a promotion today, yet I got one. It's almost like the hard work, campaigning and thought I put into it paid off....

ziddina

ROFL!!!

Good comment, Entirely Possible!!

SweetBabyCheezits

No different than Christ saying to love Him first.

Agreed.

Because in that sense, if you love Him first, then you love others in the way that He loves others.

Then why not just make the first commandment, "Love people like I love people." Seems like the love for god would and should come naturally if he's acting like a loving god.

Loving God first is for our benefit.

I disagree. I think loving the Hebrew god was a thinly-veiled benefit to humans leading Israel at that time, though it did serve as a benefit to the people in the form of faith/placebo effect ..... the same as loving Jesus was/is for the benefit to church leaders first, then individuals who get the placebo effect that is faith. (My opinion, of course.)

Because HE wants us to love and serve one another.

I wish HE would've hung around a bit longer than 30 something years so those of us who don't operate on faith could grasp that noble idea.

tec

Only between the ears of people who are desperately clinging to the concept of an invisible, non-interactive sky-daddy [or mommy], because they cannot accept two facts....

This is where you and I have a breakdown of communication, I think. Because these two facts do not apply to me.

First, that death is our end.

I have no fear of death, or even that it might be my end. I care what I do now, and leave the afterward, to the afterward - which I have no control over.

Secondly, that we are absolutely "alone" in this. There is no amplified and extended psychic version of a "parent" that will rescue us from whatever unpalatable or downright dangerous situation that we might find ourselves in, whether due to our own ignorance and superstitious beliefs, or due to things beyond our control.

Well, now actually you might be right on this one. I can't accept that I am alone in this, because I know that I am not alone in this... which is not the same as believing because I am afraid of being alone. I am not. But it is hard to accept something that I know is untrue.

As for the rest, you are speaking about natural consequences... I can absolutely accept that. We reap what we sow, sort of thing. I have had to accept that in my life, and accept responsiblity for fi x ing those things as well. Any help God might give me does not absolve me of responsibility for what I have done, and must do to make amends as best I can. Or live with the consequences.

In either case, I think we can agree that proving and convincing are two different things.

You know, I didn't pray get a promotion today, yet I got one. It's almost like the hard work, campaigning and thought I put into it paid off....

Who says that it doesn't?

Peace,

Tammy

Beliefs Tied to Geography

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