by Nickolas 269 Replies latest jw friends
This subject was instrumental in my break from belief in a caring god and the bible itself.
I mean, against the backdrop of the universe, the notion of the entire universe resting on the events on our planet is just plain stupid.
Fine till a few years ago when our own atmosphere was as far as we could comprehend...
oz
I must have been extrapolating. That is what I understood and I stand corrected. I now perceive that you believe that God created the universe, set evolution in motion that led to the appearance of humankind and but sometime within this dynamic something else happened that required God to send down to Earth his Son Jesus to save us. Am I closer?
Something like that, yes.
I don't mean to be evasive the honest truth is that I don't spend that much time thinking about THAT.
I know that, when I was away from God I struggled with doing what I knew to be right, it was as if something kept me from doing it and looking back I always heard "that voice" trying to guide me and I always ignored it and pay the price.
I alwys tried to do it "myself" and "on my own" and I struggled in ways that I can't put into words, it cost me dearly in many ways.
I sought discipline in my Martial arts, arts I have done for 33 years and to no avail (though it did help some).
AFter I found Christ (not that He was lost) and admitted to myself that I can't do it with HIM, it all fell into place.
I noticed that the "voice" was His and had been His all a long and that when I listen and followed and with His help, things went right.
I understood Love and I loved unconditonally not because I wanted love in return, but because it felt right to love, period.
When I worship Him, it feels right and complete, like "coming home".
Truly, my dear friend, I believe we were made for Him and in Him we are complete and in Him we are love.
Beyond that, I love to learn and discuss things like evolution and the universe and why we are here, but I admit that I just simply don't know and am jsut speculating.
I understood Love and I loved unconditonally not because I wanted love in return, but because it felt right to love, period.
That's interesting PSac, if I may intervene . . .
I feel that this is right also . . . and that to love unconditionally . . . not just fellow humans, but my environment (the world around me) brings me into some kind of harmony and peace. I get a sense of completeness as well.
I haven't been able to consciously connect that to a "living" Christ however . . . in a relationship sense.
Any thoughts?
I feel that this is right also . . . and that to love unconditionally . . . not just fellow humans, but my environment (the world around me) brings me into some kind of harmony and peace. I get a sense of completeness as well.
We are made to be THAT way.
I haven't been able to consciously connect that to a "living" Christ however . . . in a relationship sense.
Any thoughts?
I think that the "wall" that has been set up, that makes you perhaps believe that you aren't able to connect is the reason you may not be able to.
Christ is in you already my friend, you can't love unconditionally without Christ, so that you DO love this way means He is there already, you just have to accept him.
But I sense that there are concerns as to what that MAY mean to you if you accept Him, yes?
But I sense that there are concerns as to what that MAY mean to you if you accept Him, yes?
Without the bonds and peversions of Organised religion . . . it raises no concerns at all.
I have yet to discover however, how this connection can be positively identified as being with the historical entity who was Christ . . . in his current form today . . . if you know what I mean. I don't trust the Bible as divinely inspired or canonised . . . so am suspicious of it's content. Going beyond simply living according to a philosophical sense of morality based on unconditional love . . . into a living, real interaction with a spirit being, is simply beyond me at present.
Without the bonds and peversions of Organised religion . . . it raises no concerns at all.
The is one wall down my friend :)
I have yet to discover however, how this connection can be positively identified as being with the historical entity who was Christ . . . in his current form today . . . if you know what I mean. I don't trust the Bible as divinely inspired or canonised . . . so am suspicious of it's content. Going beyond simply living according to a philosophical sense of morality based on unconditional love . . . into a living, real interaction with a spirit being, is simply beyond me at present.
The bible is but ONE way in which God has revealed Himself to Us, the universe, Us in His Image and His Word are the others.
You have to take them all for what they are.
It is quite right to be supicious of the writings of ancient man, heck when someone writers somethinG NOW we are suspicious!
One doesn't just simply turn on a switch and go from everyday life to oness with a spiritual being, I don't know if that can be done.
Its a question of steps, babysteps even, and recognizing that there is "no rush" and that we all come to God in "due time" and that God doesn't want "blind obedience" or "blind faith", but us to come to Him out of Love and understanding.
Follow your heart and trust in love my friend :)
It's been an interesting interchange PSac . . . I would not expect a rapid or miraculous conversion into something I cannot recognise or understand . . . but always remain open to change . . . especially that change which harmonises with my current personal connection with the world around me, and doesn't clash heavily with what I know to be evidentially true already . . . who knows what might come from that.
We are to be ONE with this world as we are the caretakers of this wonderful and amazing planet.
God has given us all the we need to make this world a paradise and to care for it as is our responsibility, the rest is of course up to US.
Something tells me that you understand this quite well :)
I am glad I popped back in the thread, even if my last comments are all the way back on page ten. I was inordinately pleased that a few of you looked up the TED video and were similarly stretched. I like stretching my mental boundaries. I'd like to respond to a comments if I may.
soft+gentle - In contrast Yahweh, the bible and faith tends towards denying mystery and possibility suggesting that there will always be more of the same - (to me a kind of annihilation).
I suggest that fundamentalist religions demand religious certainty. You won't find this with the older religions, such as (non-fundamentalist) Judaism. Catholics as well are comfortable for the most part with mystery. I was contemplating the lives of the saints (post-bible) and I can't imagine there are many modern Catholics who take those stories literally. The chatechism is like a grand made-up story that a community of believers has incorporated as their own. Perhaps ritual supersedes meaning, and that may be closer to spiritual fulfillment than a forced belief "because the bible says so." Muslims similarly, are united by common behavior and rituals, not belief. This is why muslims are bemused by the evangelical's insistence on coming to a common belief about Christ. There is no similar requirement in their religion. I came to a broader understanding of the fundamentalist view and it's implications in The Battle for God by Karen Armstrong .
sizemik - Alive and dead. For me, there is still a collossal difference. As I contemplated death, I imagined the body transforming from an intricately functioning system (even if compromised by ill health) to a bag of leaking fluids. Nothing is holding the dance together. That transformation to me (either way) is amazing. That's why I enjoyed the TED presenter's essential challenge; what is life after all? The difference may be tiny, but profound.
tec, enjoy the butterflies.
